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-   Schutzhund/IPO Training (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/)
-   -   Schutzhund vs protection training (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/415602-schutzhund-vs-protection-training.html)

meldy 02-24-2014 03:36 PM

Schutzhund vs protection training
 
Is there a difference between Schutzhund/IPO and actual protection work?
I thought they were the same thing until I saw posts on another thread that asked the OP if he was looking to do schutzhund or actual protection work.

Freddy 02-24-2014 03:42 PM

Totally different. Schutzhund/IPO is a sport that consists of 3 phases of training. Protection work would be one phase (protection and biting) with some secondary obedience for control. Many Schutzhund dogs would not have what it takes to be a protection dog.

DaniFani 02-24-2014 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 5078690)
Totally different. Schutzhund/IPO is a sport that consists of 3 phases of training. Protection work would be one phase (protection and biting) with some secondary obedience for control. Many Schutzhund dogs would not have what it takes to be a protection dog.

Lol, and many "protection dogs" wouldn't do a thing if pushed to the limit and trained/evaluated properly. There is just as much corruption, lies, and bad training/over priced dogs, in protection as there is in SchH. Two way street...all depends on who's training and how they are training.

To OP, they are different. IPO requires absolute precision and lots of time/energy. Protection doesn't require as much obedience, no tracking, and lots of people think different training and different "accomplishments" equal a protection dog....if that makes sense.

ETA: Didn't mean that as a slam to you at all, Freddy. It just seems that there is this constant one-upping and comparison between SchH and protection. There is crap in both venues, and dogs in both venues that aren't what their handlers think they are or aren't capable of what the handler presumes they are capable of. All about the training.

Freddy 02-24-2014 03:52 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Schutzhund/IPO guy. They are different.

I also agree with what you are saying. Most sport dogs aren't put on hidden sleeves and suits. My group uses them.

meldy 02-24-2014 03:54 PM

So an IPO dog cant do actual real life protection work?
Or just a protection dog cant do all the phases of IPO?

David Winners 02-24-2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meldy (Post 5078666)
Is there a difference between Schutzhund/IPO and actual protection work?
I thought they were the same thing until I saw posts on another thread that asked the OP if he was looking to do schutzhund or actual protection work.

If you look at the end result of the training, an IPO routine or a PPD, you may understand the difference in training. One is a set routine. The other is an entirely different product.

Not to say that dogs can't be cross trained in both.

Freddy 02-24-2014 04:02 PM

I think some can do both, but a lot of IPO dogs see the exercises as a game. Protection is a different situation, and requires different training.

Some IPO dogs can easily do protection work, and I'm sure a lot of protection dogs could do IPO.

As DaniFani said, there are a lot of people out there claiming to have what they do not.

meldy 02-24-2014 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 5078874)
I think some can do both, but a lot of IPO dogs see the exercises as a game. Protection is a different situation, and requires different training.

Some IPO dogs can easily do protection work, and I'm sure a lot of protection dogs could do IPO.

As DaniFani said, there are a lot of people out there claiming to have what they do not.


Please break this down for a newbie >.< I thought the whole training process was treated as a game just to build confidence in the dog?

Im new, obviously, and just learning (I don't even have a dog yet) but I sorta always thought IPO translated into real world skills. It sounds a bit like it's just a performance for titles and ribbons? At least the protection end of it. I should think that the obedience and tracking would be useful anywhere (should tracking be required at least)

Im not trying to insult IPO people, just trying to sort out the differences in the sports and what they actually mean as far as real world skills.

Freddy 02-24-2014 04:37 PM

Maybe a better way to put it is how people fitness train. Some run a couple miles a couple of times a week. Others crosstrain, often doing over 100 miles a week between running and biking.

There are certainly ornamental titles in IPO, usually obtained by someone who wants to be able to breed their dog. There are also people who are very serious about IPO, and bring more pressure on the dog to invoke a more serious response. Not all IPO dogs can handle this. When done correctly, an IPO dog will be balanced and confident, and more than able to protect you should the occasion arise.

If there is no measure of success, no benchmark (titles and scores) in IPO, how are you able to measure your success relative to others?

I have not done formal protection training but I think the scope of the training is much narrower than advanced IPO training.

Merciel 02-24-2014 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meldy (Post 5079026)
I thought the whole training process was treated as a game just to build confidence in the dog?

Im new, obviously, and just learning (I don't even have a dog yet) but I sorta always thought IPO translated into real world skills. It sounds a bit like it's just a performance for titles and ribbons? At least the protection end of it. I should think that the obedience and tracking would be useful anywhere (should tracking be required at least)

Im not trying to insult IPO people, just trying to sort out the differences in the sports and what they actually mean as far as real world skills.

IPO protection can be trained as something like a game, and a lot of foundational puppy work starts out this way to build correct, safe mechanical skills (like teaching an agility dog how to take jumps safely).

It can also be trained as something much more closely approximating a "real fight."

It can be approached as a sport where the primary concern is getting the highest possible score for trophies and podium placements.

And it can be approached as a breed test, or a foundation for various real-world skills, where perfect precision is less important than digging in and seeing how your dog responds to different kinds of pressure and challenge.

The reason it gets so confusing and complicated is because IPO is all of these things at once. It is a sport that means different things to different people. I think that is pretty appropriate, given that the German Shepherd breed itself means different things to different people. There are a lot of parallels in how various camps wrangle about what the true soul of the endeavor should be.


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