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Old 02-10-2013, 10:21 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Harmony, that is a very good point. I probably have not found as many problems as others because, while I enjoy the social aspect of clubs, I do this because I love working these dogs.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:22 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I just haven't found them to be much of a problem because I never allowed them to be
I think this is the most important message of all...

I totally live by this.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:24 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I live in Missouri and was approached by someone who does ScH training. I have her card and want to keep in touch given her offer for morning walks with her and her GSD. She told me that ANY dog is welcome in her club.

My thoughts may change on the matter, but for now, I have no interest in ScH. *I* am not disciplined enough. Like I said tough...I am not ruling it out.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:46 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Before too long, I'll visit all of the local clubs and watch them train. I don't care when people are focused and in the zone (obviously - they need to concentrate on what they're doing).
It bothers me when they're rude and hateful.

Hopefully, when I go to visit other clubs, I can come back and share positive experiences.

In defense of dog sports (and anything, really) there's the good and the bad.
In flyball, there's snobby, hateful, cold people too. I've seen someone yank their staffie up by the collar, punch him in the head and scream bloody murder at him for going around jumps at a DEMO. Someone I was sitting next to in the crowd said something along the lines of how abusive dog sports are.... I looked at him and told him that person has no business being in flyball, I'm on another team, he loves it, etc. I made it clear I was also disgusted and horrified at her behavior.
There's bad apples in everything.

I just hope there's one club in the area I can mesh with.

ETA:
Being in a dog sport, I can completely understand that they're focused on the task at hand. Flyball tournaments can be chaotic, stressful, and exhausting, but I always have a BLAST. I want to be able to experience that same excitement if/when I pursue SchH.
I like dog sports, not to prove that my dog is awesome (because I already know that), not to prove anything to anyone... I do it to have FUN with my dog. To strengthen our bond. To give him something HE loves to do, besides fetch. To channel that drive and energy into something great.

I want to be competitive, but I want to have fun doing it and my dog have even more fun.
Are you in the Phoenix area? I visited a club there back in May or June I believe. They were very nice and I had a great time. I think for me it helped that I'm a helper and thiers happend to be sick that day. So I got lots of extra work. It was great for me as I got to learn from a Judge they have in there group and work dogs I hadn't seen before. At the end of the day I asked their opinion of my dog. I got what I asked for. Some of you may take it as an insult but it was an opinion and observation of what that particular person saw in the dog. I work my dog hard and for many hours a week so it's no supprise to hear what people tell me. So if you can't take the truth about your dog then maybe it isn't the place for you.

When people would visit my schH club I really don't have time to talk to them. I have work to do and that's what I'm doing. If they ask questions and get involved then that helps but I'm not going to go out of my way to talk to them. We have lots of people come out once. Then we never see them again. The more interested they are the more people will talk to them.

I lost my train of thought so I'm going to end here haha
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:31 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I think if someone can't take an experienced third party's opinion on their dog, then they can't improve themselves OR the dog.

I'm about 45 minutes to an hour away from Phoenix. Do you recall the name of the club?
I think I'd go to a few training days and just sit, watch, and take notes at a few different clubs. Then go and ask any questions I may have for 'em.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:52 AM   #46 (permalink)
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We have people of all abilities, sports (ipo, dock diving, agility) and breeds in the group.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Come on people. Let's be real for a minute.

EVERYTHING she heard IS TRUE!

That is how SchH is. No need to give it a paint job. Are there clubs out there like that? YES!

And the behavior practiced does NOT surprise me the least bit!

Not every club is like that but there are enough out there that are just like that. If you have a great club, that is the exception!

Also, using not ethical methods to get the dogs titled faster? OF COURSE! Whenever money and ego is involved that's when methods are being used that are not in the interest of the dog.

It is SchH, afterall!

Things are changing to the better but it is a slow, slow very slow change and everyone should be advocating for a clean sport and impeccable behavior!

Why do you think people are trying to get the sport banned everywhere you look? It's because of people like that! So no need to avoid the truth. ONLY if we face the truth and change the attitude, things can change. And because people don't like visitors, and are that secretive we have the reputation that nothing has changed because only people that have something to hide wouldn't want visitors at their club! That is how people think.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 02-11-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I've had the same experience as Lisa, but I'm in the same area. I have trained with and/or trialed at eight different SchH/protection sport clubs in the past five years. I've never once felt the club was being hostile to me. Because the group I originally trained with was not a sanctioned club, I've never had the luxury of trialing with my own club/home field and often have been the *only* person in the event that was not a member of the host club and usually those clubs happened to be the most welcoming towards me. A while back I signed up for an event at a club in a really rough area. As usual I was the only non club member participating. This was a club of big, burly guys that all owned Rottweilers and Cane Corso type dogs. Their TD has a reputation for being very militant in his training style (toward the people not the dogs). Here I was with my little GSD bitch 50lb soaking wet, the only female (human) entered in the event, the only visitor, only one year into dog ownership and training but these guys were some of the nicest and most welcoming I have ever met.

I find that clubs who are training on public land or land they don't own tend to be the more "secretive" type and it's usually not why people think. The group I used to train with did not own the land we trained on and were receiving a huge favor from a local police department. We also sometimes trained indoors at a facility also receiving a huge favor from that owner. As such we had to be much more strict about when we could allow visitors and who those visitors were. We could not just let people come and go as they pleased since we had to be responsible for who was there, not only for our own sakes but for the people who actually owned the facility (and the liability). I used to coordinate the visitors and let me tell you for every 20 people that contacted me we had maybe one ever show up. We allowed visitors once a month and always gave them directions and made it very clear when/where to show up and almost all of them never did. Our priority was our members first so we could not be distracted by a revolving door of people coming and going as they pleased with no real commitment to the club or the sport. Most of the clubs I have visited or trained with have been extremely tolerant of these types of people, moreso than I am!
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Why do you think people are trying to get the sport banned everywhere you look? It's because of people like that! So no need to avoid the truth. ONLY if we face the truth and change the attitude, things can change. And because people don't like visitors, and are that secretive we have the reputation that nothing has changed because only people that have something to hide wouldn't want visitors at their club! That is how people think.
Are you finding this to be true in the US or are you talking about Germany?
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I've had the same experience as Lisa, but I'm in the same area. I have trained with and/or trialed at eight different SchH/protection sport clubs in the past five years. I've never once felt the club was being hostile to me. Because the group I originally trained with was not a sanctioned club, I've never had the luxury of trialing with my own club/home field and often have been the *only* person in the event that was not a member of the host club and usually those clubs happened to be the most welcoming towards me. A while back I signed up for an event at a club in a really rough area. As usual I was the only non club member participating. This was a club of big, burly guys that all owned Rottweilers and Cane Corso type dogs. Their TD has a reputation for being very militant in his training style (toward the people not the dogs). Here I was with my little GSD bitch 50lb soaking wet, the only female (human) entered in the event, the only visitor, only one year into dog ownership and training but these guys were some of the nicest and most welcoming I have ever met.

I find that clubs who are training on public land or land they don't own tend to be the more "secretive" type and it's usually not why people think. The group I used to train with did not own the land we trained on and were receiving a huge favor from a local police department. We also sometimes trained indoors at a facility also receiving a huge favor from that owner. As such we had to be much more strict about when we could allow visitors and who those visitors were. We could not just let people come and go as they pleased since we had to be responsible for who was there, not only for our own sakes but for the people who actually owned the facility (and the liability). I used to coordinate the visitors and let me tell you for every 20 people that contacted me we had maybe one ever show up. We allowed visitors once a month and always gave them directions and made it very clear when/where to show up and almost all of them never did. Our priority was our members first so we could not be distracted by a revolving door of people coming and going as they pleased with no real commitment to the club or the sport. Most of the clubs I have visited or trained with have been extremely tolerant of these types of people, moreso than I am!

Lies, I think it makes a difference if you are already in the sport and if you aren't.

One thing I have noticed in SchH is that the people here on the forum are an exception with being involved in so many venues. A lot of times, if you are doing RH or Flyball, Agility, Obedience... these people are smiled upon and not in a good way, especially by a lot of oldtimers who just don't know any better.

If a dog isn't good enough for SchH... just sell him to do RH, that he'll be good enough for. They don't take anyone else serious but themselves.

Also, what you perceive as friendly and outgoing may not be perceived as friendly and outgoing for an outstanding person that doesn't know the sport.

The sport does demand a lot of discipline and that discipline may come across as rough and hostile. That is why outstanding people have such a big issue. Also, if SchH people do not take other venues serious. And the way I grew into it, offering Flyball on a SchH field, IS an exceptional thing and very open minded. I've never even seen anything else except for basic obedience lessons, maybe Agility or RH.

Clubs change, but it is a slow change. Maybe Germany can actually learn something from the USA. And I mean that.
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