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Old 01-31-2013, 01:30 PM   #41 (permalink)
Jag
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How did you get a fast down? Grim will take a few seconds before doing it, and sometimes even walk off a couple of feet.... lol! He usually sits pretty quick, but for down he takes his sweet time....

I liked your vids. How long have you been doing training like this? I have to admit I've never done any of this training with a puppy before. I always waited until they were adults to try to get any of this. At his age now, I don't think it's too much to work on (but I don't make it the center of our days).

I wasn't bothered by him checking out at all. It was the disruption of the class with his barking that was causing an issue (but he did get better as the time went on), and it was brought to my attention a couple times that he was 'staring'.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:32 PM   #42 (permalink)
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To be honest, I used -R (I use a prong not e-collar). I trained down as puppies but didn't really care if it was slow or crooked or they shifted onto their hip. When they got older I sort of re-trained it using -R (but paired with a marker, release, and reward).
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:37 PM   #43 (permalink)
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OK. So me rewarding the 'down' even if he takes his sweet time isn't a bad thing. Good to know. He used to really gripe at me about it. Now he doesn't gripe, he just does it slow.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:48 PM   #44 (permalink)
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The way I taught a quick down was to correct...with a prong...and just give a quick pop down when they're taking their time.

Now that I know a little better...my suggestion would be again to really work on his drive first and then use that to train quick downs or other exercises.

I like the balabanov method...release the dog as soon as they do whatever you want them to do correctly and give them their reward (tug). So the longer the dog takes to do the exercise the longer it doesn't get the reward. Most dogs should figure out that they need to do things quickly and will speed up in order to get their reward. But you really have to be accurate and reward as soon as the dog does what is asked.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:58 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Another way to get a quick down is when he playing with you and the toy and excited have him in front of you and use the toy to guide him down with the command and toss to him as a reward. Once he knows the down full well then if he is slow you can give a correction of ahha then have him try again. easier to show then explain but have no video.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:04 PM   #46 (permalink)
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on the lack of focus what are you doing with him to build after all it takes time to get the focus you want. i work on that slowly and now if I work on any of that he will drop the eyes for but a second for the reward to enter his mouth but then quickly comes back to looking at me so that is when I know my dog has great focus including does this under distraction. One way to get a dog's attention if he is staring at other dogs is to lift up slowly on the leash i.e in a 90 from the ground and as you do this the dog will feel the tightening and look at you and not the other dog. mark with a yes and then a reward.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:32 PM   #47 (permalink)
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On the 'what am I doing to build focus' question... I reward him for looking at me. Whether it's because I asked him to or just because he does (when we're working or if we're in one on one time). I reward him (with praise) for playing tug with me, because he's paying attention to me when we're doing that. I'm not comfortable at this point with giving him anything other than a verbal correction for anything. One of the mistakes that I made (which I won't do again) was I had him on a prong during class. I only really need it or use it when walking him, so once we got into the class I should have put him back on his flat collar. I did eventually, but not right away. So at that point I didn't pull on his lead for looking at the other dogs for two reasons. One- I didn't realize he was 'staring', I thought he was just checking them out. Two- even if I had, I wouldn't have pulled on his lead like that because it was attached to the prong still.

I don't think I'm going to get a lot of focus from him at this point because he's young, he's full of energy, and when he goes into new places he's interested in what's around him. The next class will probably be better, because it won't be a place he hasn't seen before. The "rules" were also different, as I had always allowed him to meet new people and new dogs. Funny thing is, at Bass Pro, he walked past MANY new people, and didn't approach any of them. He also saw a couple other dogs, and although he noticed them he moved on with me without any issue... without meeting them. I have stopped encouraging him to approach people. He (on his own, it seems) has gotten better about it. However, to contradict himself again... when I took him to the club, he was sort of a social butterfly again. He met everyone, happily played with anyone who wanted to... and Lisa handled him for me briefly which he didn't seem to notice or mind. (My back was burning pretty good, and it gave me a chance to see how I should be standing, holding the line, etc.)
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:59 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Actually if you use a prong like I suggested and go slowly where you feel each link go through the ring then you will only need 2-4 links and he will look up at you to break the stare. Then you cna let down 1 to 2 links to get him relief and if he he wants to stare again then you only need to tighten the 1 to 2 links.

I goofed and did not work with my pup on his staring at other dogs enough and so it later became a problem, I used this to work him through the bad habit. so you can do it earlier and catch the problem. It is not painful just a reminder to look at me and not other dogs is all.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:17 AM   #49 (permalink)
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If you don't think you need a prong at this point...don't use it. Since you're using it on walks I don't really get why you wouldn't use it in training and you'll probably end up using one in Schutzhund training since you're going to have a driven, big male that you'll need to get through somehow and a prong is the more effective way of doing that.

I wouldn't correct for those things either at this point either as my training philosophy has moved more towards compulsion rather than correction. I think you just have to wait it out, keep working on it with toys/treats, and wait for him to "get it." The more his play drive develops the more he'll want to do things for that play so it will get easier.

I think sometimes we get in this rut when we have a 6 month old puppy and we're watching older dogs and want the same thing. Not realizing that it all comes with time and no puppy is going to have anywhere near the attention/focus/obedience that an older dog has.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:00 PM   #50 (permalink)
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The prong he had on was very small. My goal with that was 'only' to have him self correct for pulling. I have a 'regular' prong for him now. I don't know if I'll have to use it for correction, or if I can get what I want another way. He'll still have the prong on, but I'm going to try to break the staring, etc. behaviors without correction. If that fails, then I'll put him back on the prong. The reason I didn't want to use the prong in class is because I've not yet given a prong correction. I kind of wanted to wait... to see if other methods would work before correction. He's only 6 months (nearly 7) and my other shepherds were adults before I used the prong for correction. We'll see what he requires. I'm not adverse to using it, nor to giving corrections. If he's in the mood to be biddable, though, I'd rather not. I already know we're going to be going there during SchH.
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