The retrieve.... oh the retrieve... ;)

[elisabeth_00117]

Jane - I can't do much in the way of handler corrections with him, otherwise he will shut down - and not for just the session.... sometimes for days.... I would like to use the e-collar for this but need some assistance as to when I should stim him, etc.

He is VERY handler sensitive and couple that with his weak nerve... poor guy would be ruined... LOL.

[GatorDog]

Coming from another handler sensitive dog mom, this is what worked for Aiden.

We back chained the retrieve and broke it down into steps. So I started with him in a sit in front of me and had him take it. Then eventually he took it and held for a few seconds with my hands on top and bottom of his muzzle. Then without my hands there. Then I would have him hold it and I would take a step back and then forward, so I would walk into him in a correct front position and he would hold the dumbbell solid and get used to me being in his front. He knows "watch" so I would remind him to do it if he wavered with the head position. Then eventually we did the holding the dumbbell with a sit/stay and a recall to me, gradually increasing the distance. Then I would do sit/stay with dumbbell in between him and I, command "bring" and have him come forward, grab the dumbbell, and do a front. Then I did a sit/stay by my side and I would walk away and place the dumbbell on the ground. I would return and amp him up, send him to "bring" and ask for the front. I never worked on the whole exercise together until he did that perfect 99% of the time


I never ever EVER allowed him to drop it in the beginning and if he did, it was just "uh uh" and we did it again. Every time he did it correct, I would say "out" before marking with yes. I think that consistency in the beginning helped a lot. He knew that dropping it wasn't an option anymore.

Hope that helps. I think I have a video somewhere that I can try and find.

[elisabeth_00117]

Thanks Alexis! I think I need to go back to basics and start over for sure. I would love to see the video if you have it.

[Liesje]

Pan can be pretty handler sensitive but I did two sessions of forced "hold" with him (because he was inconsistent taking a dumbbell from me, and also if he had it would drop it or let it loll around in the back of his jaw). It took two quick sessions and he got the point, has never had an issue dropping or holding too soft since then. It can be done even with a sensitive dog as long as it's thought-through beforehand and executed in a way that the dog learns and gets plenty of positive feedback.

[lhczth]

I am working the retrieve with Elena right now. She is a very compliant dog that is also a bit softer than her sister, but also very quick to understand what I want. I am doing this in two parts right now. In one room I am sitting on the couch, building her up, throwing the DB and she is going out, picking it up and bringing it back to me where I say "out" and take it from her. No formal hold or front. We have progressed to this point starting with her just putting her mouth on the DB. This is not a dog with crazy play/ball drive.

Then I take her into the kitchen where we are working on the hold. I have done the forced retrieve on 7 dogs and play retrieve on one. I am trying a different approach this time and we are doing a more controlled hold without the force. I have her sit slightly off of center (I don't like to put pressure on the dog in the formal front position), have my left hand in her collar so it can also go up under her jaw. The first times she of course grabbed the DB and then let go and looked at me for the "yes/reward". I just told her to "bring" and when she took it I added hold, got a split second hold, marked it and outed, reward. The left hand comes up and sort of supports the lower jaw so she can't drop the DB easily. Of course, she is a dog, so she has tried to drop the DB, roll it around in her mouth and then just not open her mouth. I tend to use a negative marker (no) and repeat what ever commend I have to. If she spits it out, I tell her "no, bring, hold". If she rolls it to the back, "no, hold" while I move it back to the correct position. When she decides to just look at me and not open her mouth, "bring" is repeated. I did open her mouth twice and put the DB inside. She is now taking the DB, holding it with the support under the jaw (not holding the jaw, but my hand is there), I am just starting to increase the time held, touch the DB with my right hand or stroking her head. Haven't decided where I will go next.

Something I did with Treue (she had a play retrieve) was throw the DB just in front of me (she was on leash), she would pick it up and I would have her carry it while I pushed on the sides, then I would say out before she could drop it. As we progressed I would have her come into front, but would push on the DB as she came in and step back, push on the DB, then out. Eventually I could stand still and push on the DB (the bell part) and she would shove it back at me. Then I added the sit command as I pushed on the DB. I basically used her opposition reflex to hold onto and then push back. Only thing I did not do with her which I wish I had was some formal hold work. Took a long time to get her to not chew the DB. She had a totally quiet mouth by the time we got the 3.

[Packen]

I started the retrieve with Creasy a week ago, the hold is absolute, really like this dog. Will see in a week or so (after 10-15 sessions) how it looks. Will post a video.

[Renofan2]

I am working on retrieves with Brenna and have the same issue - her not wanting to bring it back to me close enough. What is working for her is instead of me backing up or giving a correction to come to me - i push her away. Once i started doing this she wants to push back and is coming in closer. Not sure if it will work for you, but was something very simple that is showing alot of progress for us.

[elisabeth_00117]

Thanks everyone!

I will try to get a video of Stark this weekend. One good thing about Stark is that he picks things up very quickly.

I am going to start the retrieve with Zefra soon too but want to "perfect" it with Stark first.

[onyx'girl]

You have two totally different dogs, so what works for Stark isn't necessarily going to work for Zefra.
I would do the back-chaining methods with her, and let her know early on that there is no option but to hold, not chew.
She'll probably pick it up no problem and be a happy enthusiastic retriever.
I don't think I'd try or worry about perfecting Stark's before you begin her. It'll just frustrate and confuse the end goal for Zefra.

[elisabeth_00117]

Oh, I didn't mean I would use the same techniques with both dogs... lol.

Just want to finish 1 dog on the retrieve before I start another..