A Question about the purpose and intent of ScH? - Page 6

GSDElsa · 12-17-2012, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJenkins

USCA helper rules state the helper is to watch the dog during the hold and bark...that doesn't mean he should eye screw him. Most times during the helper seminars I've attended we are told to look over the top of the dogs head towards the tail. Remember this is during a trial. We aren't supposed to give help to a dog and as stated some dogs just don't have that strong of a guard in the blind unless the helper has eye sex with them. IMO when they come into the blind they should be ready to go and wanting that fight come trial day. It shouldn't take the helper having a stare down or a twitch here and there to keep them barking and in the blind.

True, true! I perhaps misunderstood what he was saying when he was talking about not staring at the dog and I interpreted it as more as avoiding the dog all together rather than staring over the top of them.

robk · 12-17-2012, 07:45 PM

This thread is all over the place with multiple conversations going on at once.

onyx'girl · 12-17-2012, 07:50 PM

aren't they all? LOL!

codmaster · 12-17-2012, 08:22 PM

One question on the topic of "Drives" - seems to me that the definition (and number and type) of these as well as the purpose is all over the place and depends to a large degree on the individual talking about them.

Seems to me in many cases to be an after the fact explanation of, or just trying to explain, a dog's behavior.

So my question is - is there a fact based generally accepted definition list of a dog's drives?

onyx'girl · 12-17-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

So my question is - is there a fact based generally accepted definition list of a dog's drives?

Schutzhund Village

**Liesje** · 12-17-2012, 08:35 PM

I think Armin Winkler's descriptions are generally accepted

Schutzhund Village

codmaster · 12-17-2012, 08:46 PM

Thanks to both! very interesting.

This doesn't seem to be a very long list of drives.

I.E. what drive would it be in a dog to protect her puppies against an intruder?

Is it a "drive" for a dog to be food aggressive (i.e. self preservation?)

Or for a dog in a pack to forge ahead and attack a large dangerous prey, i.e. a moose
would that be "prey" drive or something else?

It almost seems like all "instinctual" behavior is traceable back to a drive.

And yet there will conflicts sometimes - self preservation drive versus "fight" drive when challenged by a large dangerous foe?

Can "learned" behavior overcome "drives" in setting the behavior of our dogs? (assuming that we owners would like t do so sometimes)

onyx'girl · 12-17-2012, 08:48 PM

another good link(I'm sure you've already seen this one though)
Elem. of Temperament

**Liesje** · 12-17-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codmaster

It almost seems like all "instinctual" behavior is traceable back to a drive.

Pretty much, but you can't always just look at one at a time, you have to consider the balance and the threshold.

cliffson1 · 12-17-2012, 10:55 PM

Some people have to comment on everything, even when it is obvious they don't know a lot about the subject

.
I think a mammal protecting their young is pretty consistent with all animals....not sure that would be a drive.

12-17-2012, 07:45 PM	#52 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,525	This thread is all over the place with multiple conversations going on at once. __________________ Honor Von Kaltwasser BH aka "Ruger" http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...von-Kaltwasser

12-17-2012, 07:50 PM	#53 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,160	aren't they all? LOL! __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

12-17-2012, 08:35 PM	#56 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,235	I think Armin Winkler's descriptions are generally accepted Schutzhund Village __________________ Liesje & Nikon vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

12-17-2012, 08:48 PM	#58 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,160	another good link(I'm sure you've already seen this one though) Elem. of Temperament __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

12-17-2012, 10:55 PM	#60 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,867	Some people have to comment on everything, even when it is obvious they don't know a lot about the subject. I think a mammal protecting their young is pretty consistent with all animals....not sure that would be a drive.

12-17-2012, 08:22 PM	#54 (permalink)
codmaster Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: California, US Posts: 5,928	One question on the topic of "Drives" - seems to me that the definition (and number and type) of these as well as the purpose is all over the place and depends to a large degree on the individual talking about them. Seems to me in many cases to be an after the fact explanation of, or just trying to explain, a dog's behavior. So my question is - is there a fact based generally accepted definition list of a dog's drives?

12-17-2012, 08:46 PM	#57 (permalink)
codmaster Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: California, US Posts: 5,928	Thanks to both! very interesting. This doesn't seem to be a very long list of drives. I.E. what drive would it be in a dog to protect her puppies against an intruder? Is it a "drive" for a dog to be food aggressive (i.e. self preservation?) Or for a dog in a pack to forge ahead and attack a large dangerous prey, i.e. a moose would that be "prey" drive or something else? It almost seems like all "instinctual" behavior is traceable back to a drive. And yet there will conflicts sometimes - self preservation drive versus "fight" drive when challenged by a large dangerous foe? Can "learned" behavior overcome "drives" in setting the behavior of our dogs? (assuming that we owners would like t do so sometimes)

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