A Question about the purpose and intent of ScH?

[lhczth]

If the trials are not testing the dogs then shame on the helpers, shame on the judges and shame on the clubs that allow this in their club.

YES, I HATE that passive, neutral nonsense that some of the judges are really pushing for in the blind. For some reason they got it in their heads that actually noticing that the dog is there is helping the dog.

I agree. I train GSD and do IPO because that just happens to be what is the most easily available. I do other stuff with my dogs because it is fun. I like to do well, but won't change how I train and stop doing the other stuff I enjoy doing with my dogs just for points. Plus, I don't feel you should have to.

[lsatov]

Perhaps we could start a new topic to help the newbies understand all the aspects of the protection. I know I would find this helpful as it has already been stated very difficult to find a knowlegeable helper and as a newbie it is difficult to understand all the different aspects. I realize that approaches vary for each dog but to have a basic understanding would be very helpful like protection 101

Laurel

[lhczth]

Read Der Schutzhund by Helmut Raiser. That is probably one of the best places to start.

[cliffson1]

Good foundation book Lisa recommended.

[ayoitzrimz]

Lets see some examples of "good" helper work and what in your opinion is good or correct about them, if any are available to public on youtube...

[onyx'girl]

Not many put up video's on the net because the reason for a particular training session many not be clear to the viewer(thus critiques are inaccurate).
This helper/decoy puts up vids often: Troy Seaton - YouTube
And Melanie does too, I enjoy watching Melanie work dogs!
Melanie Howe - YouTube

[Liesje]

It's hard for me to find videos because they just don't translate well. I've had some of my dogs' best sessions recorded but when I go back and watch I'm like "meh...." The video doesn't really communicate the context (what is being worked on, why, where the dog was previously, how much improvement you are seeing, etc).

One example I can think of I'm not going to post because the guy doing the helperwork is not a member here so I don't think it's fair to toss him to the wolves, but I remember sharing the video a while back on facebook and got a few compliments on his work. We were training a young dog to start the hold and bark, it was the dog's first session doing hold and bark and the second time I sent him, the helper had him bark 34 times before he got a bite, in contrast to a lot of dogs staring a hold and bark that are getting bites ever 4 or 5 barks. I just remember a few people complimented the work because the helper was not just feeding bites but building the frustration and aggression in the dog and capping it with a bite.

[ayoitzrimz]

Thanks Lies, Jane...

I completely understand not wanting to throw non-members to the wolves... and I've seen first hand what happens here when someone posts a video and the harpies chime in...

hmmmm I do want to see and learn more as I am a beginning helper learning the ropes so to speak... would any of you consider PMing me with Youtube links? You really have no reason to go out of your way, but I would very much appreciate different opinions etc. So I will GLADLY accept PMs of videos that you would consider good and proper, etc... No need to reply to this post, just feel free to throw PM's my way Thanks!!

[lhczth]

Someone you might talk to about getting more training would be Frank Phillips. I know he isn't close, but a lot closer than the other helpers I would recommend. He did a helper seminar for us after our trial (both training and trial) and he had some excellent ideas for specific problems. Maybe try to see about meeting he and Steve Rommard sometime for a weekend when they are training together.

[lhczth]

Something else you have to consider. While we could send you videos, without seeing what the helper is seeing you will not understand why certain things are being done. Most of the time you really need to be in front of the dog. You also need to feel the dog on the sleeve. People like Anne can tell you what she would do, but unless you see what she sees or feel what she feels much of it will not help you. You will just be going through the actions.