Working your dog in defense

[Vandal]

Nope, no opinions, just trying to figure out what you are talking about. Think I have it figured out now.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Vandal

Nope, no opinions, just trying to figure out what you are talking about. Think I have it figured out now.

It was simply that in the pictures I had just posted, Katya, who always hackles when she is working in aggression (she doesn't work in defense), was hackling for that exercise... further, that exercise was what I would like'd to have seen the dog doing in x11's video rather than with a fence involved.

[GSDElsa]

I think I probably wasn't really saying what I wanted to when I started this thread...and totally worded it wrong. I guess really what I was getting at is not working the dog in just defense, but rather just a situation where defense/fight drive/aggression gets brought out through certain exercises. Even though I said it, in hindsight straight "defense" wasn't really what I meant.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

I think I probably wasn't really saying what I wanted to when I started this thread...and totally worded it wrong. I guess really what I was getting at is not working the dog in just defense, but rather just a situation where defense/fight drive/aggression gets brought out through certain exercises. Even though I said it, in hindsight straight "defense" wasn't really what I meant.

I assumed you meant what you just said.

[abakerrr]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

I think I probably wasn't really saying what I wanted to when I started this thread...and totally worded it wrong. I guess really what I was getting at is not working the dog in just defense, but rather just a situation where defense/fight drive/aggression gets brought out through certain exercises. Even though I said it, in hindsight straight "defense" wasn't really what I meant.

Ive been following this thread given than I also work my dog in the same fashion. I guess since I have personal experience with the context of the protection work your referencing, i'm finding that what our experiences have been with this style of training is vastly different from what a lot of people think it might be and what they think the dog will/wont get out of it. The way this training works in the way i've seen it used is designed to bring out a strong, confident dog that doesn't rely on equipment to turn on a strong aggressive response. With that, I think its has a lot of value in bringing out the realness in a dog. I've personally used it to also teach my dog a sharp on and off switch with her aggression. I particularly like that it reinforces her aggression towards the person instead of equipment. Shes a sport dog and I certainly don't teach her these things to make her a PPD, particularly because I have no personal need for that. I cross train in different avenues because I like to see the strengths/ weakness of my dog by putting her in different contexts of work.

Never has my dog been whipped, beaten, or pushed past anything she can't handle in this style of work. That's my responsibility as her partner to make sure I never put her in a situation where a helpers actions are unwarranted or detrimental to her overall well-being. Matter of fact, not only does she really like this type of work away from the schutzhund field, she excels at it. I think personal opinions of this type of work relies heavily on past experiences and exposure. If you've seen it done in a correct fashion, that produced a positive outcome, you may think it has value... whereas if you've seen it done in an incorrect way, that produced a negative outcome, you may feel it doesn't have value.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

I think I probably wasn't really saying what I wanted to when I started this thread...and totally worded it wrong. I guess really what I was getting at is not working the dog in just defense, but rather just a situation where defense/fight drive/aggression gets brought out through certain exercises. Even though I said it, in hindsight straight "defense" wasn't really what I meant.

Yeah I took your post to refer to "aggression" in general, or working a dog beyond prey, as in he hold and bark being an aggression exercise and not just barking for a toy or tug game exercise.

[GSDElsa]

Ok, glad some people got what I was saying...it just seemed like some didn't and I do think it could have been worded differently...some of these concepts are so hard to put into words I feel like it can be hard to know that we are all talking about the same thing and are on the same page!

[onyx'girl]

So abakerrr, do you train at the same club as Justine?
Justine, I understood your meaning as well!

[x11]

good balanced post in a potentially emotional type thread where people are half guessing what each other actually mean - at least i post vids more times than not

Originally Posted by abakerrr

Ive been following this thread given than I also work my dog in the same fashion. I guess since I have personal experience with the context of the protection work your referencing, i'm finding that what our experiences have been with this style of training is vastly different from what a lot of people think it might be and what they think the dog will/wont get out of it. The way this training works in the way i've seen it used is designed to bring out a strong, confident dog that doesn't rely on equipment to turn on a strong aggressive response. With that, I think its has a lot of value in bringing out the realness in a dog. I've personally used it to also teach my dog a sharp on and off switch with her aggression. I particularly like that it reinforces her aggression towards the person instead of equipment. Shes a sport dog and I certainly don't teach her these things to make her a PPD, particularly because I have no personal need for that. I cross train in different avenues because I like to see the strengths/ weakness of my dog by putting her in different contexts of work.

Never has my dog been whipped, beaten, or pushed past anything she can't handle in this style of work. That's my responsibility as her partner to make sure I never put her in a situation where a helpers actions are unwarranted or detrimental to her overall well-being. Matter of fact, not only does she really like this type of work away from the schutzhund field, she excels at it. I think personal opinions of this type of work relies heavily on past experiences and exposure. If you've seen it done in a correct fashion, that produced a positive outcome, you may think it has value... whereas if you've seen it done in an incorrect way, that produced a negative outcome, you may feel it doesn't have value.

[abakerrr]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

So abakerrr, do you train at the same club as Justine?

Both of them, yes.