Working your dog in defense

[hunterisgreat]

This is just a picture, but a video of this sort of exercise is what I would like to see, sans fence. I think its clear here what drive the dog is in, and its clear she *remains* in that drive in the second pic... had she the opportunity from a snapped leash or my error, I believe its obvious she would not have run around the side and bit the sleeve. You can also see her hackled fur in both pictures

*** Images too big 2048 X 1365 - removed by admin - max image size 800 X 600 ***

[x11]

Originally Posted by hunterisgreat

well I'd love to see it off leash, but i believe on leash was implied lol.. good luck finding someone willing to do it off leash, and if you do promise to put me in touch with their friends... birds of a feather flock together and I'd like to get in on that lol.

not saying my dog would bite for real or anything but when weighing up my house, land, my ability to earn an income ever again, sure destruction of my dog to prove a point versus making a great 2 minute video for internet strangers...

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by x11

not saying my dog would bite for real or anything but when weighing up my house, land, my ability to earn an income ever again, sure destruction of my dog to prove a point versus making a great 2 minute video for internet strangers...

I *was* joking you know lol. For the record, I do not think it wise to have a dog bite an unprotected person for real within the context of training a dog

[Vandal]

You can also see her hackled fur in both pictures

.......Just trying to understand what you are saying here....you are saying the raised hackles are an indication of ....what?

[x11]

gotcha. has happened - people trained fighting dogs by letting them loose on neighbourhood pets and same with PPD on people - of course these people are the absolute scum of the earth. the cases have been on the news.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Vandal

.......Just trying to understand what you are saying here....you are saying the raised hackles are an indication of ....what?

Its is a physiological reflex of the sympathetic nerve system that is part of an aggressive threatening posture, both defensive and offensive. It is not a physiological response to prey stimulation.

Its an indication of defensive drive or aggression. B/c i was there and train the dog, I can tell you it is aggression, however that can't be determined from just a picture.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by x11

gotcha. has happened - people trained fighting dogs by letting them loose on neighbourhood pets and same with PPD on people - of course these people are the absolute scum of the earth. the cases have been on the news.

Someone who does that on a person is not training a PPD. Thats not protection, thats offensive if the person is passive.

[Vandal]

So you are saying you expect to see raised hackles whenever a dog is worked in this fashion?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Vandal

As a training helper I have used a "table" once.....it was a Pit Bull and she was standing on a picnic table at the park. . Other than that, no, never. Never felt the need to use one.

As a handler, I put one of my dogs on one because the helper just could not get what I wanted out of my dog. He was a real propponet of the table and considered himself to be quite an expert. I put the dog up there but the helper work sucked as bad with the dog four feet off the ground as it did with him standing on the grass, ( just as I knew it would). Took the dog back off thirty seconds later and back to my car.

I actually understand what Mrs K is trying to say but people are choosing to be offended by. lol. Some dogs don't really "need" to be worked on a table. Trainers choose to use it...fine....but that doesn't change reality.

As for the original question, as a helper, no, I don't work the dogs in "defense". I use many different ways to bring the dog into fight drive. When he wants to engage and fight with me, I reinforce that behavior. Doesn't matter if it is with his bark or his bite or what he is standing on.

As a handler, more and more I am tempted to try to use anything to get the right kind of helper work. However, just using tables, or anything else for that matter, will never take the place of a really talented helper. They don''t need props or tools as much as the people who really don't know as much as they think they do, believe.

Oh and yes, I do understand the concept of the table.

Thank you.

I was hoping you'd chime in.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Vandal

So you are saying you expect to see raised hackles whenever a dog is worked in this fashion?

No, all dogs are different. Just that a dog that is hackled, is hackled as a show of aggression or defense. My male dog, for example, does not hackle readily. He postures in other ways. Very simply, the hackles indicate that aggressive response is present at that instant in time. Don't read more into it than that

If you've got a different perspective please do share. Do you believe a dog with erect hackles is in pure prey drive?