Working your dog in defense

[GSDElsa]

Originally Posted by lhczth

To bring up aggression in our dogs we tend to work them off the field. We wil do protection in the woods, have our helpers hide and have the dogs search them out and then have to bark because they are out of reach (no bite),

Our club (since we use the table about once a year ) just did a similar thing a few weekends ago to "mix things up." Great example! Brings out the good side of the dogs and the handlers for having a little "weee!!" adventure.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

But notice how she didn't say "all prey" either

I think we can all agree (or should agree) that it's about an overall balance.....bringing in all drives, not just ones we want to use.

I know. And as I said earlier, I prefer to work in prey because right now, she's a lot of dog to handle. She's fun, but she's a lot of dog and first, I need to learn the basics. We are at the very beginning and there is simply no need to work in defense at all. Not at this point. Once we progress and grow together, than we can start thinking about the rest.

That's not handling a dog halfway, it's about knowing your limitations and I know mine. You and me both have dogs that can take us places and I am almost certain that you will go places, I won't because I have limited resources and everybody knows it, which is why I've got so many offers for Nala. They know that I won't take her where she could go and I know it too but she ain't for sale because I made a promise to Heinz (some may know him, he was the previous handler from Asko vom Siegelgrund and Nala's owner, he also was a well known Judge) and I intend to keep it. That is why he sold her to me and not to a Sport Handler because he knew the difference it makes in her lifestyle. You and I both have dogs that "have it". I told you from the very beginning that Medo is an exceptional dog and you are one heck of a talented handler.

I can acknowledge something on a professional basis when I see it. You have talent, the dog, the trainer, everything you need to excel at what you do. It was a huge loss for SAR and a gain for your Club because you've got what it takes and so has your dog.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by lhczth

To bring up aggression in our dogs we tend to work them off the field. We wil do protection in the woods, have our helpers hide and have the dogs search them out and then have to bark because they are out of reach (no bite), we will do work in the hay mow, the basement of my barn, after dark or at dusk. We will do work that also involves NO biting and just chasing the helper off of the field or away.

When Sean was in that tree on Saturday I want to sneak my dog out and let him go so bad!!! One of my favorite bitework sessions with Nikon (anywhere, ever) was when they did the hay wrestling in the barn.

[Mrs.K]

That is how the police in Germany tested our dogs. They were tied up in the woods, left alone and then the helper went in to see how they react. Once they passed that, the handler took the dog for a test week to evaluate the dog further. I've seen a couple of those and it's always fun to see how the dog reacts.

[Vandal]

But notice how she didn't say "all prey" either

I think " all prey" is relative, in that the kind of dog you are working, matters quite a bit. Prey work was introduced when the dogs were a heck of alot more serious, due to genetics and to a lesser degree, how they were trained. It was used to relieve the pressure and to channel the aggression into the bite. The dog learned they could get calmness in the bite.

I have a female who is really serious. No helper will be needing to get right on top of us to get aggression from her, that's for sure. I don't have super talented helpers but I tell the one who does know some things, to stand still, let her bark and then do nothing but prey attractions before the bite is offered. No one watching that dog has considered for one minute that she was an "all prey" dog, that's for sure. In the beginning, when she was much younger, she would bite what was offered. Amazing how some people offer their body more than the sleeve when they are in front of dogs like her but some of them did. lol.
Anyway, while not "all prey", most of it is and no matter how much a helper swings that sleeve around, she will never view the work differently. She will channel the aggression into the bite/sleeve but the helper will not be her playmate and if there is no sleeve there, she will bite him.... if he so desires.

There are now dogs who will change and it becomes all about the sleeve and not at all about the man. They are lacking the heart and courage to take a man on if you ask me. This is why some are constantly trying to pressure their dogs in order to "fix" that. Many times you can't. You can make the dog more serious but they will never view it like the female I just talked about. It is not in their genetics.

Oddly, my dog would be the kind that SchH people might think there is something "wrong" with, because she won't play with them. She means it, its the social aggression we talked about in the other thread, but is again, something most people don't understand anymore. It is active aggression that does not require big threatening actions from the helper. Once she figured out what it was about, she sees him and it's on. She doesn't need running, whip popping or someone right there with a claw shaped hand....she loads when she sees him or suspects that he is nearby.

[GSDElsa]

Sandra-keep it up with nala and keep looking to expand your horizons. She is a cute little gal. I dont think pushing her every once in awhile is going to change that sweet temperment! She is and will always be a stable, social, well adjusted dog even if you woek her in big bad dog mode every once in awhile!

[robk]

We have a dog at our club that is 100% defense. Way too serious all the time. One of those "sleeve not required" type dogs. Therefore he only gets a bite in prey.

He is actually quite commical to watch because he has this frumpy "all business" look to him thats amusing in a wierd sort of way.

[x11]

this topic is sure to get some hackles up.....haw, haw...couldn't resist

[Vandal]

Just keep in mind that "all defense" is the opposite of active aggression. If the dog is "all defense", he will need to be "pushed" to bite. That kind of dog will not be successful in SchH.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by robk

We have a dog at our club that is 100% defense. Way too serious all the time. One of those "sleeve not required" type dogs. Therefore he only gets a bite in prey.

He is actually quite commical to watch because he has this frumpy "all business" look to him thats amusing in a wierd sort of way.

100% defense, as in "defensive", as opposed to aggression or "offensive" defense... people often lump the two together and so I must ask.

We have a dog that will go into defense (the bad kind) rather easily, that we use different means to get them back into prey so they can actually learn.