Working your dog in defense - Page 13 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #121 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
GSDElsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central, NY
Posts: 4,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
To bring up aggression in our dogs we tend to work them off the field. We wil do protection in the woods, have our helpers hide and have the dogs search them out and then have to bark because they are out of reach (no bite),
Our club (since we use the table about once a year ) just did a similar thing a few weekends ago to "mix things up." Great example! Brings out the good side of the dogs and the handlers for having a little "weee!!" adventure.
__________________
J, mom to:
- Elsa - "Da Pookins"
- Medo - "The Beast From The East"

Last edited by lhczth; 12-03-2012 at 03:55 PM. Reason: fixing quote
GSDElsa is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-03-2012, 03:57 PM   #122 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 9,001
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDElsa View Post
But notice how she didn't say "all prey" either

I think we can all agree (or should agree) that it's about an overall balance.....bringing in all drives, not just ones we want to use.
I know. And as I said earlier, I prefer to work in prey because right now, she's a lot of dog to handle. She's fun, but she's a lot of dog and first, I need to learn the basics. We are at the very beginning and there is simply no need to work in defense at all. Not at this point. Once we progress and grow together, than we can start thinking about the rest.

That's not handling a dog halfway, it's about knowing your limitations and I know mine. You and me both have dogs that can take us places and I am almost certain that you will go places, I won't because I have limited resources and everybody knows it, which is why I've got so many offers for Nala. They know that I won't take her where she could go and I know it too but she ain't for sale because I made a promise to Heinz (some may know him, he was the previous handler from Asko vom Siegelgrund and Nala's owner, he also was a well known Judge) and I intend to keep it. That is why he sold her to me and not to a Sport Handler because he knew the difference it makes in her lifestyle. You and I both have dogs that "have it". I told you from the very beginning that Medo is an exceptional dog and you are one heck of a talented handler.

I can acknowledge something on a professional basis when I see it. You have talent, the dog, the trainer, everything you need to excel at what you do. It was a huge loss for SAR and a gain for your Club because you've got what it takes and so has your dog.
Mrs.K is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:00 PM   #123 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
To bring up aggression in our dogs we tend to work them off the field. We wil do protection in the woods, have our helpers hide and have the dogs search them out and then have to bark because they are out of reach (no bite), we will do work in the hay mow, the basement of my barn, after dark or at dusk. We will do work that also involves NO biting and just chasing the helper off of the field or away.
When Sean was in that tree on Saturday I want to sneak my dog out and let him go so bad!!! One of my favorite bitework sessions with Nikon (anywhere, ever) was when they did the hay wrestling in the barn.
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:04 PM   #124 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 9,001
Default

That is how the police in Germany tested our dogs. They were tied up in the woods, left alone and then the helper went in to see how they react. Once they passed that, the handler took the dog for a test week to evaluate the dog further. I've seen a couple of those and it's always fun to see how the dog reacts.
Mrs.K is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #125 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Vandal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saugus, CA
Posts: 2,180
Default

Quote:
But notice how she didn't say "all prey" either
I think " all prey" is relative, in that the kind of dog you are working, matters quite a bit. Prey work was introduced when the dogs were a heck of alot more serious, due to genetics and to a lesser degree, how they were trained. It was used to relieve the pressure and to channel the aggression into the bite. The dog learned they could get calmness in the bite.

I have a female who is really serious. No helper will be needing to get right on top of us to get aggression from her, that's for sure. I don't have super talented helpers but I tell the one who does know some things, to stand still, let her bark and then do nothing but prey attractions before the bite is offered. No one watching that dog has considered for one minute that she was an "all prey" dog, that's for sure. In the beginning, when she was much younger, she would bite what was offered. Amazing how some people offer their body more than the sleeve when they are in front of dogs like her but some of them did. lol.
Anyway, while not "all prey", most of it is and no matter how much a helper swings that sleeve around, she will never view the work differently. She will channel the aggression into the bite/sleeve but the helper will not be her playmate and if there is no sleeve there, she will bite him.... if he so desires.

There are now dogs who will change and it becomes all about the sleeve and not at all about the man. They are lacking the heart and courage to take a man on if you ask me. This is why some are constantly trying to pressure their dogs in order to "fix" that. Many times you can't. You can make the dog more serious but they will never view it like the female I just talked about. It is not in their genetics.

Oddly, my dog would be the kind that SchH people might think there is something "wrong" with, because she won't play with them. She means it, its the social aggression we talked about in the other thread, but is again, something most people don't understand anymore. It is active aggression that does not require big threatening actions from the helper. Once she figured out what it was about, she sees him and it's on. She doesn't need running, whip popping or someone right there with a claw shaped hand....she loads when she sees him or suspects that he is nearby.
__________________

Anne
www.adlerstein.com

Last edited by Vandal; 12-03-2012 at 04:25 PM.
Vandal is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #126 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
GSDElsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central, NY
Posts: 4,144
Default

Sandra-keep it up with nala and keep looking to expand your horizons. She is a cute little gal. I dont think pushing her every once in awhile is going to change that sweet temperment! She is and will always be a stable, social, well adjusted dog even if you woek her in big bad dog mode every once in awhile!
__________________
J, mom to:
- Elsa - "Da Pookins"
- Medo - "The Beast From The East"
GSDElsa is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #127 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 2,113
Default

We have a dog at our club that is 100% defense. Way too serious all the time. One of those "sleeve not required" type dogs. Therefore he only gets a bite in prey.

He is actually quite commical to watch because he has this frumpy "all business" look to him thats amusing in a wierd sort of way.
__________________
Honor Von Kaltwasser BH aka "Ruger"
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...von-Kaltwasser
robk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:37 PM   #128 (permalink)
x11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,291
Default

this topic is sure to get some hackles up.....haw, haw...couldn't resist
x11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:42 PM   #129 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Vandal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saugus, CA
Posts: 2,180
Default

Just keep in mind that "all defense" is the opposite of active aggression. If the dog is "all defense", he will need to be "pushed" to bite. That kind of dog will not be successful in SchH.
__________________

Anne
www.adlerstein.com
Vandal is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 04:45 PM   #130 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
hunterisgreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 3,707
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
We have a dog at our club that is 100% defense. Way too serious all the time. One of those "sleeve not required" type dogs. Therefore he only gets a bite in prey.

He is actually quite commical to watch because he has this frumpy "all business" look to him thats amusing in a wierd sort of way.
100% defense, as in "defensive", as opposed to aggression or "offensive" defense... people often lump the two together and so I must ask.

We have a dog that will go into defense (the bad kind) rather easily, that we use different means to get them back into prey so they can actually learn.
__________________
Hunter, CWDC UScA Helper
Beschützer des Jägers v.d. Sportwaffen
Katya v. Hügelblick
SG Aska v. Ketscher Wald
Yōkai v.d. Sportwaffen
hunterisgreat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum