Disarmimg helper- dog crowding?

wildo · 11-15-2012, 11:16 AM

Ok- sorry, I don't know all the terms yet. In a back transport, which I think is followed by the "reattack" (is that right?) the handler will then walk up, sit the dog (no barking allowed) and then walk past the helper and circle back around to ask for the stick.

In some of the SchH videos I've watched, it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction? Is this a show of poor obedience, or is it desirable for the dog to want to keep on the "bad guy?"

Maybe this isn't as common as I thought because I can't find a youtube video to show as an example. Hopefully you guys understand what I'm describing.

**Liesje** · 11-15-2012, 11:28 AM

Yes you always set the dog up for success, lol. Nikon's very obedient in the protection phase but I still turn left away from the helper, and if the helper is close you can ask them to step back too (the handler controls the routine). If you are allowed to chose, why risk it? I also take the stick while in front, but that's personal preference.

wildo · 11-15-2012, 11:31 AM

Actually I'm not clear on your answer Lies. Is this step a show of obedience specifically- or should the dog be more focused on the bad guy (at the expensive of nice, noncrowded heeling)?

**Liesje** · 11-15-2012, 11:35 AM

Define focus? The dog should not be unwilling to move with the handler nor pop forward and take a dirty jab at the helper. At this point the helper is stationary (and the handler may have asked him to take a step back away from the dog). You say "fuss" and then heel away, whichever way you choose but I don't know anyone that doesn't turn left. Then some people kind of back their dog into position and others take a circle around into position.

During protection I don't really want my dog doing fancy prancy happy face heeling, I prefer him to just walk with me and look forward (or at the helper), but he MUST heel when I say heel. Yes if the dog is crowding such that the handler is pushing him into position that probably incurs point deductions. How much would depend on the level of the trial and the overall picture.

wildo · 11-15-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje

The dog should not be unwilling to move with the handler nor pop forward and take a dirty jab at the helper.

This answered my question. Thanks!

**Liesje** · 11-15-2012, 11:40 AM

Gotcha. I should add a disclaimer: IMHO!

I don't want to have to shove my dog off the helper with my thigh, to me that's not correct, BUT if I'm in a trial and that's what I have to do I will do it (or give an extra command).

schh3fh2 · 11-15-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildo

Ok- sorry, I don't know all the terms yet. In a back transport, which I think is followed by the "reattack" (is that right?) the handler will then walk up, sit the dog (no barking allowed) and then walk past the helper and circle back around to ask for the stick.

In some of the SchH videos I've watched, it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction? Is this a show of poor obedience, or is it desirable for the dog to want to keep on the "bad guy?"

Maybe this isn't as common as I thought because I can't find a youtube video to show as an example. Hopefully you guys understand what I'm describing.

OK first this is the "side" transport...Back transport is when you and the dog are heeling behind the helper and he turns to attack.

you said " it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction?"

This is not correct. In Protectection the dog should show change of drives. The dog should heel correctly after being turned off from guarding and then given an obedience command. I'm not saying it must have perfect attention to handler but the handler should not be physically moving the dog with his/her leg. But that being said, I would never take any points just for crowding at a club trial. In a Championship you would mention in the critique that the dog should be more correct in the setup for side transport, there is no "set" deduction but it will go into the overall picture of that exercise and will effect the rating.

Frank

schh3fh2 · 11-15-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje

Gotcha. I should add a disclaimer: IMHO!

I don't want to have to shove my dog off the helper with my thigh, to me that's not correct, BUT if I'm in a trial and that's what I have to do I will do it (or give an extra command).

Hahaha...No, do it...The extra command is a "set deduction"...

**Liesje** · 11-15-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schh3fh2

Hahaha...No, do it...The extra command is a "set deduction"...

Well there you have it Willy! Thanks Frank, I'll remember that.

wildo · 11-15-2012, 01:02 PM

What is a set deduction?

11-15-2012, 11:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
wildo Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,166	Disarmimg helper- dog crowding? Ok- sorry, I don't know all the terms yet. In a back transport, which I think is followed by the "reattack" (is that right?) the handler will then walk up, sit the dog (no barking allowed) and then walk past the helper and circle back around to ask for the stick. In some of the SchH videos I've watched, it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction? Is this a show of poor obedience, or is it desirable for the dog to want to keep on the "bad guy?" Maybe this isn't as common as I thought because I can't find a youtube video to show as an example. Hopefully you guys understand what I'm describing. __________________ Willy Pimg - DOB: 2/06, CL3, CL2, CL1, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training

11-15-2012, 11:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,441	Yes you always set the dog up for success, lol. Nikon's very obedient in the protection phase but I still turn left away from the helper, and if the helper is close you can ask them to step back too (the handler controls the routine). If you are allowed to chose, why risk it? I also take the stick while in front, but that's personal preference. __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

11-15-2012, 11:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
wildo Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,166	Actually I'm not clear on your answer Lies. Is this step a show of obedience specifically- or should the dog be more focused on the bad guy (at the expensive of nice, noncrowded heeling)? __________________ Willy Pimg - DOB: 2/06, CL3, CL2, CL1, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training

11-15-2012, 11:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,441	Define focus? The dog should not be unwilling to move with the handler nor pop forward and take a dirty jab at the helper. At this point the helper is stationary (and the handler may have asked him to take a step back away from the dog). You say "fuss" and then heel away, whichever way you choose but I don't know anyone that doesn't turn left. Then some people kind of back their dog into position and others take a circle around into position. During protection I don't really want my dog doing fancy prancy happy face heeling, I prefer him to just walk with me and look forward (or at the helper), but he MUST heel when I say heel. Yes if the dog is crowding such that the handler is pushing him into position that probably incurs point deductions. How much would depend on the level of the trial and the overall picture. __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

11-15-2012, 11:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,441	Gotcha. I should add a disclaimer: IMHO! I don't want to have to shove my dog off the helper with my thigh, to me that's not correct, BUT if I'm in a trial and that's what I have to do I will do it (or give an extra command). __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

11-15-2012, 01:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
wildo Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,166	What is a set deduction? __________________ Willy Pimg - DOB: 2/06, CL3, CL2, CL1, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training

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