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-   -   Disarmimg helper- dog crowding? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/194430-disarmimg-helper-dog-crowding.html)

wildo 11-15-2012 11:16 AM

Disarmimg helper- dog crowding?
 
Ok- sorry, I don't know all the terms yet. In a back transport, which I think is followed by the "reattack" (is that right?) the handler will then walk up, sit the dog (no barking allowed) and then walk past the helper and circle back around to ask for the stick.

In some of the SchH videos I've watched, it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction? Is this a show of poor obedience, or is it desirable for the dog to want to keep on the "bad guy?"

Maybe this isn't as common as I thought because I can't find a youtube video to show as an example. Hopefully you guys understand what I'm describing.

Liesje 11-15-2012 11:28 AM

Yes you always set the dog up for success, lol. Nikon's very obedient in the protection phase but I still turn left away from the helper, and if the helper is close you can ask them to step back too (the handler controls the routine). If you are allowed to chose, why risk it? I also take the stick while in front, but that's personal preference.

wildo 11-15-2012 11:31 AM

Actually I'm not clear on your answer Lies. Is this step a show of obedience specifically- or should the dog be more focused on the bad guy (at the expensive of nice, noncrowded heeling)?

Liesje 11-15-2012 11:35 AM

Define focus? The dog should not be unwilling to move with the handler nor pop forward and take a dirty jab at the helper. At this point the helper is stationary (and the handler may have asked him to take a step back away from the dog). You say "fuss" and then heel away, whichever way you choose but I don't know anyone that doesn't turn left. Then some people kind of back their dog into position and others take a circle around into position.

During protection I don't really want my dog doing fancy prancy happy face heeling, I prefer him to just walk with me and look forward (or at the helper), but he MUST heel when I say heel. Yes if the dog is crowding such that the handler is pushing him into position that probably incurs point deductions. How much would depend on the level of the trial and the overall picture.

wildo 11-15-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje (Post 2630210)
The dog should not be unwilling to move with the handler nor pop forward and take a dirty jab at the helper.

This answered my question. Thanks!

Liesje 11-15-2012 11:40 AM

Gotcha. I should add a disclaimer: IMHO!

I don't want to have to shove my dog off the helper with my thigh, to me that's not correct, BUT if I'm in a trial and that's what I have to do I will do it (or give an extra command).

schh3fh2 11-15-2012 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildo (Post 2630184)
Ok- sorry, I don't know all the terms yet. In a back transport, which I think is followed by the "reattack" (is that right?) the handler will then walk up, sit the dog (no barking allowed) and then walk past the helper and circle back around to ask for the stick.

In some of the SchH videos I've watched, it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction? Is this a show of poor obedience, or is it desirable for the dog to want to keep on the "bad guy?"

Maybe this isn't as common as I thought because I can't find a youtube video to show as an example. Hopefully you guys understand what I'm describing.

OK first this is the "side" transport...Back transport is when you and the dog are heeling behind the helper and he turns to attack.

you said " it almost seems like the handler is using his left leg to push the dog away from the helper- like the dog is crowding him. Is this a point(s) deduction?"

This is not correct. In Protectection the dog should show change of drives. The dog should heel correctly after being turned off from guarding and then given an obedience command. I'm not saying it must have perfect attention to handler but the handler should not be physically moving the dog with his/her leg. But that being said, I would never take any points just for crowding at a club trial. In a Championship you would mention in the critique that the dog should be more correct in the setup for side transport, there is no "set" deduction but it will go into the overall picture of that exercise and will effect the rating.


Frank

schh3fh2 11-15-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje (Post 2630213)
Gotcha. I should add a disclaimer: IMHO!

I don't want to have to shove my dog off the helper with my thigh, to me that's not correct, BUT if I'm in a trial and that's what I have to do I will do it (or give an extra command).


Hahaha...No, do it...The extra command is a "set deduction"... :)

Liesje 11-15-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schh3fh2 (Post 2630225)
Hahaha...No, do it...The extra command is a "set deduction"... :)

Well there you have it Willy! Thanks Frank, I'll remember that.

wildo 11-15-2012 01:02 PM

What is a set deduction?


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