"Crawling"

[Liesje]

This was brought up in another thread and I'm curious but it should probably have its own topic. What do you make of dogs that "crawl" next to their handler, usually when heeling towards the blind before an attack?

[onyx'girl]

I've not seen it enough to know why the dog was crawling...though if it is a creepy crawl, I'd say it is not something I'd want and train the dog NOT to do it.

I've seen stalking behavior but that is the dog moving forward low stealthily.

Anyone have vid's to share?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I've not seen it enough to know why the dog was crawling...though if it is a creepy crawl, I'd say it is not something I'd want and train the dog NOT to do it.

I've seen stalking behavior but that is the dog moving forward low stealthily.

Anyone have vid's to share?

Ditto the ones I've seen were always in a stealth mode, excited, anxious moving forward to get that darn bite already.

[carmspack]

in the old days of training some of the hardest toughest dogs were trained with a great deal of compulsion , a picture of a well known dog comes to mind but for the life of me I cannot recall the name of this particular dog -- the drive for the fight was so strong , the compulsion was needed for the control in the heel prior to launch for attack -- lots of "obedience" looked like the dog was being suppressed, because they were -- this however is not the crawl or reduction in size out of timidity or softness !!
This was prior to dogs being tricked into obedience with balls and treats.

[qbchottu]

I like it. Tells me the dog wants to get his bite so badly that he has had a good amount of compulsion put into him to control his drive and keep him in obedience. But then again, I have seen soft dogs do this because they are just being shifty. But generally, I like it. I actually hate seeing a perfect heel to the blind or when trying to pass bitework for shows. Those dogs don't bring it like the ones that stalk and stealth their prey

[hunterisgreat]

By crawl do you mean "stalk"?

[Chris Wild]

I've seen dogs crawl and I've seen dogs stalk, and there is a definitely, obvious difference between the two. With stalking, it is just that.. the dog is stalking the helper. I have a female who tends to always heel this way in protection (but never in obedience) and that is exactly what she is doing. It wasn't created through compulsion, of which she needed very little.

Then there are dogs who are crawling because they feel pressure. That pressure could be from the handler, could be from the helper and situation. Might be pressure felt just that day, might be a long term pattern of pressure due to compulsive training. Maybe the dog really had a lot of compulsion put on him. Maybe he didn't but is a softer dog and feels pressure more keenly than he should.

[Chris Wild]

Originally Posted by qbchottu

I like it. Tells me the dog wants to get his bite so badly that he has had a good amount of compulsion put into him to control his drive and keep him in obedience.

Interesting opinion. One I certainly don't share. I don't want a dog who has needed a good deal of compulsion to keep him in control. The GSD isn't supposed to be a breed that requires constant threat of correction to keep him doing what his handler says, no matter what else he may want to do. And there are plenty of very hard, powerful, serious dogs out there who do not need that level of compulsion to maintain control. The ability to stay in control without excessive complusion certainly doesn't equate to a dog who doesn't want to engage the helper. And needing compulsion to stay in control isn't to me a way to measure if it's a tough, drivey dog.

[qbchottu]

Do you use compulsion in your dogs?

[Chris Wild]

Of course some corrections are required to train a dog in this venue. But it shouldn't take extreme compulsion over the long haul.. to the point that creates crawling... to gain compliance. With too many dogs, control is a constant, daily battle. That is not the way it should be. Nor is it something that should be considered to automatically go with the territory if it's a tough dog, or be considered proof of the dog's drive and toughness. There are plenty of tough dogs that do not need it and do not battle their handler.