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Old 11-14-2012, 10:02 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Good point. Here's another thing. Paul Schneider judged and gave me my IPO1, listed in my WDA scorebook. Will USCA rcognize this, or will they say it's invalid, like they did in the past with Mike West. The reason I ask is that our WDA club would like to change to USCA, we only chose WDA 3 years ago because we didn't think we could consistently host 1 trial a year. Well we learned can hold 2 trials a year without difficulty. But since our members filled the gsdca-wda scorebooks with wda judges, we're reluctant to switch if it means we must do the titles over again.
Mike West's titles in the past were not recognized because his Judge's Lic was not issued by a WUSV or FCI member org. It was issued by GSDCA-WDA that has no membership in either the WUSV or FCI. Now that he has the SV recognition then his titles are recognized. I do not know Paul Schneider but if his judge's lic is issued by a FCI or WUSV organization or if he is a WDA judge and attended the meeting and got SV recognition, then his titles will also be recognized.


As for the scorebook "certification" and the fee... UScA spends thousands of dollars each year on Judge's and Helper education, they also have a paid full time office staff that track and record all trials results. These services are provided for UScA members and are paid for by UScA members dues.

To offest costs, non-UScA members are charged a fee to use our services.

Why should NON-members get to use these services free of charge? If UScA did that why would anyone join and pay dues? I hope you can understand the simple fact that UScA will not over charge our members to provide servies free of charge to Non-members.



Frank
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:04 PM   #72 (permalink)
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You think a non-member trialing at a usca event, paying the entry fee which goes to the hosting club which in turn goes to the fees of the national organization, is using the services for free? What non-members complain about paying fees? I can trial at a dvg trial while paying the entry fee, in some cases higher than a dvg member, without dvg wanting to certify my scorebook under their stipulation. But then again DVG has no qualms with WDA. I really dont care, but I want to point out that paying fees are non-issue. Rather there is the question of motive that exists.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:08 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I'm OK with fees as long as we are honest about what it's for....the club needs the money to survive, plain and simple. It is really nice to have actual office staff. It's nice to be able to pick up the phone in an emergency and call the office, get things cleared up right away, or if you send in a package and it's missing some paperwork you can fax it over and someone is right there to pick it up and process your paperwork. All clubs have these fees here and there. I've quit doing several other dogsports because the entry fees alone are getting ridiculous. At least the nice thing about SchH is you get three phases for one entry!

I believe you'd have to pay a fee to have a scorebook certified even if you are a member?
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:25 PM   #74 (permalink)
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This is why this sport, undeservingly, is a dying one. The policies of the national organizations, both WDA and USCA, are put in place for the hopes of delegitimizing the other's presence and influence. This negatively affects the community, especially the newcomers like me from truly enjoying the sport.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #75 (permalink)
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You think a non-member trialing at a usca event, paying the entry fee which goes to the hosting club which in turn goes to the fees of the national organization, is using the services for free? What non-members complain about paying fees? I can trial at a dvg trial while paying the entry fee, in some cases higher than a dvg member, without dvg wanting to certify my scorebook under their stipulation. But then again DVG has no qualms with WDA. I really dont care, but I want to point out that paying fees are non-issue. Rather there is the question of motive that exists.
La nausee

If you have been around a while you would have known that for years, there was NO extra charge for non-members to enter UScA trials. There was only the scorebook certification fee. The additional entry fee has only been in effect for 2 years. I do not have all the answers, but at least I am trying to find out the answers and not just hap hazardly throwing out accusations with nothing to back it up.

So tell me because I would really liek to know.

What is the motive? and Please back it up with some facts.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I believe you'd have to pay a fee to have a scorebook certified even if you are a member?
Yes you pay a fee as a member for certification.

I actually have no problem with charging non-members a higher fee to enter though as far as I know DVG doesn't. Neither does the USRC to enter a club or regional trial. I do take issue with the certification fee required for any non-USCA score book. I can pretty much take my DVG book anywhere in the world or the US and the USCA is the only one who needs to make a buck before it's valid.

Let's be honest it doesn't cost anymore to type in a non-members name in the computer than it is a member name. This is about the attempt to make it more fiscally compelling for someone to join the USCA versus paying the higher fees.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:08 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by la_nausee View Post
This is why this sport, undeservingly, is a dying one. The policies of the national organizations, both WDA and USCA, are put in place for the hopes of delegitimizing the other's presence and influence. This negatively affects the community, especially the newcomers like me from truly enjoying the sport.

Please also show where UScA has ever tried to delegitimize GSDCA_WDA?

GSDCA has tried to have UScA removed from WYSV 3 times. GSDCA tried to block the UScA representative from attending the WUSV meeting this year.

And now to you UScA is the big bad guy because it does something protect itself. maybe your anger ought to be pointed at the one starting the problems...GSDCA.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:45 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Every business or organization is going to do some things differently. They can’t all be the same. You don’t like that USCA wants to certify a scorebook? Fine, I don’t like that I have to have my 4-generation pedigree tattoo/micro-chip certified just to get a WDA scorebook. That not only takes extra money but extra time (including a visit to the vet). I don’t like that to be a DVG member and obtain one of their scorebooks I have to belong to a DVG club (there are no DVG clubs remotely near me). There’s always going to be hoops to jump through and things you dislike in every organization. They are run by people and people are not perfect.

USCA is an organization. It is a competitive business that needs to grow and thrive just like any other competitive business. It would shock me if they didn’t try to do what they could to get and maintain members (within reason). That’s just smart business if you ask me and I for one personally wouldn’t mind paying an extra fee or going to the trouble of having a scorebook certified for being a non-member of the organization.

I just want to be able to participate and compete without being sneaky or cheating. I'm thrilled that I can now see a possible way to do so - thanks to Frank's input here.

ETA: I am not a USCA member and am not defending them, just saying I can understand the reasoning.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:57 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I wish there was a way to just pay the fees and be done. I'm so paranoid every time I have to send my dog's paperwork off somewhere (this is not just USCA but any of these orgs). This morning I made copies and scans of everything that's going bye-bye for the breed survey. If none of these orgs are actually checking the titles or anything it would be awesome if we could just PayPal the fee online and print out a receipt or sticker for the scorebook or something like that.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:11 PM   #80 (permalink)
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I wish there was a way to just pay the fees and be done. I'm so paranoid every time I have to send my dog's paperwork off somewhere (this is not just USCA but any of these orgs). This morning I made copies and scans of everything that's going bye-bye for the breed survey. If none of these orgs are actually checking the titles or anything it would be awesome if we could just PayPal the fee online and print out a receipt or sticker for the scorebook or something like that.

People get on these list, spout off with nothing to back it up, and then are not held accountable at all. The problem is when people come on here to really try to get correct information and they go away with the wrong idea/impression of what is really happening. And more often then not get incorrect information.

When you send your scorebook to UScA for certification, The office documents what titles your dog already has, so that when a club sends in your IPO2 paperwork the office knows you already had a BH and IPO1 by recognized judges. The smaller clubs can rocognize anyone because they do not have any international ties and do not have specific requirements from a parent organization. The information is in the scorebook is signed by the judge, no need to call the smaller clubs (and that would be very difficult because most do not have offices or staff to answer the phone and verify the information).
So all the UScA office must do is document what titles have been earned and by what judge, apply a UScA scorebook number to the outside and send back to you.

I understand and feel the same when I have to send off my orginals, but they must see the original.

Hope this helps

Frank

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