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Old 11-12-2012, 03:11 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What do they mean by "submit one scorebook"? I only ever give the trial secretary the scorebook pertaining to the organization hosting the trial or the show (as in, the book that the title being earned will be recorded in), but if they need proof of the other titles (which sometimes they ask for) I produce the other scorebook and always submit scans of both when entering. I always take both along and hand the trial or show sec whatever one is for that organization so the title/show rating/dental gets recorded.

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This is also NOT correct. WDA, just like UScA has their own judges, some are SV recognized some are not.
They do but every WDA event I've entered or attended has been SV judges. I didn't even realize WDA had their own judges until several years in. I don't doubt it but at least in my area they aren't used. I know some USCA clubs bring in SV judges (not the USCA/SV ones) but these events are not as frequent in my area, so usually if I want an SV judge for something I enter a WDA event (normally I do this for show cards and dental certifications, so I can use them for any breed survey later on and not limit myself to one organization).

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This is only if you are one of the 3 or 4 people in the US that plan to ship your dog to breed and/or whelp IN Germany. But just like in WDA, if you use a UScA/SV Judge or a SV Judge then I believe the Koer is "recognized" in Germany, just not for breeding IN Germany.
Yep that is why I am happy with USCA breed survey. I live in the USA so the USCA is my national club. Plus I like that they take OFAs, that saves a lot of money. But it still is confusing when USCA says they are with the SV but then has less events with SV judges and breed surveys that may or may not be recognized (every time I ask I get different answer and it seems that *for now* the USCA/SV breed survey is recognized by the SV but they could change that and we wouldn't be able to do anything about it). Since I don't breed dogs and won't send dogs to Germany it really doesn't matter to me personally but the way the topic is discussed has been very confusing to me because on one hand USCA seems to be all about the SV but then on the other hand might not be recognized?
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
What do they mean by "submit one scorebook"? I only ever give the trial secretary the scorebook pertaining to the organization hosting the trial or the show (as in, the book that the title being earned will be recorded in), but if they need proof of the other titles (which sometimes they ask for) I produce the other scorebook and always submit scans of both when entering. I always take both along and hand the trial or show sec whatever one is for that organization so the title/show rating/dental gets recorded.
What you are doing is in violation of FCI rules. In the future you should not be able to abtain 2 scorebooks for a dog. The same scorebook MUST be used for the dog at every event for the dog entire life. If you want to follow FCI rules, I am sure some people can cheat and will still try to.



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Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Yep that is why I am happy with USCA breed survey. I live in the USA so the USCA is my national club. Plus I like that they take OFAs, that saves a lot of money. But it still is confusing when USCA says they are with the SV but then has less events with SV judges and breed surveys that may or may not be recognized (every time I ask I get different answer and it seems that *for now* the USCA/SV breed survey is recognized by the SV but they could change that and we wouldn't be able to do anything about it). Since I don't breed dogs and won't send dogs to Germany it really doesn't matter to me personally but the way the topic is discussed has been very confusing to me because on one hand USCA seems to be all about the SV but then on the other hand might not be recognized?
ALL UScA judges titles are recognized for UScA breed surveys. If you have no plans to breed your dog in Germany and you are happy with UScA breed surveys then why do you even worry about it???? There is no gain at all to using SV judges in this instance.

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Old 11-12-2012, 03:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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What you are doing is in violation of FCI rules. In the future you should not be able to abtain 2 scorebooks for a dog. The same scorebook MUST be used for the dog at every event for the dog entire life. If you want to follow FCI rules, I am sure some people can cheat and will still try to.
How does the FCI factor in? It is confusing because there is AWDF, USCA, SV, FCI.... I'm entered in a breed survey in a matter of days and now am being told I am "cheating" but I don't understand how to resolve this? If it is cheating to present proof of a breed survey requirement earned by an SV judge then how is this resolved without re-doing it? The event secretary was given scans of all the papers required to do a breed survey and never said anything about SV stuff not being accepted. I can't burn my WDA stuff because it has breed survey requirements (earned under SV judges) but this makes it sound like any dog that has ever participated in anything prior to USCA membership cannot participate in USCA events or is cheating?
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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How does the FCI factor in? It is confusing because there is AWDF, USCA, SV, FCI.... I'm entered in a breed survey in a matter of days and now am being told I am "cheating" but I don't understand how to resolve this? If it is cheating to present proof of a breed survey requirement earned by an SV judge then how is this resolved without re-doing it? The event secretary was given scans of all the papers required to do a breed survey and never said anything about SV stuff not being accepted. I can't burn my WDA stuff because it has breed survey requirements (earned under SV judges) but this makes it sound like any dog that has ever participated in anything prior to USCA membership cannot participate in USCA events or is cheating?
I never said you were cheating. I said if people get 2 scorebooks in the future and turn in one then the other depending on where they enter, then it is against FCI rules and they are cheating. If you are just showing the older scorebook to prove titles then it is no problem now, if you continue to switch back and forth then you are violating FCI Trial rules. As of Jan 1 2012 the dog can not have more then one scorebook. What I said (if you go back and reread)

"In the future you should not be able to abtain 2 scorebooks for a dog. The same scorebook MUST be used for the dog at every event for the dog entire life. If you want to follow FCI rules, I am sure some people can cheat and will still try to."


No where in that statement did I say you were cheating. I said ther will always be "some people" that will try to cheat.....

The FCI is who the AWDF, SV, AKC ALL report to. They make the IPO rules for everyone.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
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You said I ("YOU") am violating a rule so I'm trying to figure out how to not do that...
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
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You said I ("YOU") am violating a rule so I'm trying to figure out how to not do that...
Only turn in one scorebook from now on.

you said " I only ever give the trial secretary the scorebook pertaining to the organization hosting the trial or the show (as in, the book that the title being earned will be recorded in),"


I said this was in violation of FCI rules and it is.....But I didn't mean to implay at all that you were cheating.... This is in fact violating FCI rules and it sounds like you didn't know (hence not cheating IMHO). showing the old scorebook to prove titles is ok but if you continue to switch back and forth then you are violating FCI rules..... The cheating comment was ment more for the fact that some people will always try to cheat and get around rules and was sincerely not intended to be pointed at you at all.....

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Old 11-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #37 (permalink)
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As far as breeding a dog in Germany - as an American taking a bitch to Germany to breed to a male - where the dog is titled, under what judges, whether or not they are breed surveyed and under which system doesn't matter. It only matter if you were to want to breed a litter IN Germany. Of course it would matter if the scenario was a German bringing a bitch to the USA to breed to a male here. Then they would have to follow their countries rules.

I sure hope USCA doesn't stop accepting OFA hips/elbows or I will never do another breed survey.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Only turn in one scorebook from now on.

you said " I only ever give the trial secretary the scorebook pertaining to the organization hosting the trial or the show (as in, the book that the title being earned will be recorded in),"


I said this was in violation of FCI rules and it is.....But I didn't mean to implay at all that you were cheating.... This is in fact violating FCI rules and it sounds like you didn't know (hence not cheating IMHO). showing the old scorebook to prove titles is ok but if you continue to switch back and forth then you are violating FCI rules..... The cheating comment was ment more for the fact that some people will always try to cheat and get around rules and was sincerely not intended to be pointed at you at all.....
OK I'm still confused, please bear with me because I want all my ducks in a row (and have friends in the exact same situation as me, trialed at the same trials and switched memberships about the same time, and don't want to tell them wrong). I don't need to switch books for IPO (other than the switch I already did which was to an AWDF book) because the WDA will accept the AWDF book, but it sounds like just by having two or having obtained two it is a violation? Or only if one was obtained this year? I got one in 2008 and one in 2010 and have been using the 2010 one since 2010 other than having to still carry the 2008 one and show it as proof (I was told to photocopy the page and glue it into my AWDF one but still carry it just in case). So I could get rid of the old one so I'm not in violation (having two) but then don't I risk having to repeat what's in there if I can't prove I earned those things already? That is the part I don't get. If it's a violation to obtain a new book what would someone do who wanted to switch to USCA and get an AWDF book and hadn't done so before January?
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:23 AM   #39 (permalink)
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No you are fine if you are only turning in one scorebook since Jan 1 2012. Just keep the old one with you. You are ok because both were issued before Jan 1 as long as you are only "using" one.

There should not be more then one scorebook issued for one dog from now on.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:32 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I have some friends that just left/are leaving the WDA so they have WDA books but might switch to USCA membership....they would need a USCA (AWDF) book right? But cannot get one and are stuck with WDA because it is after January? Or will the USCA accept the WDA book since they can only have one? I see I am in the clear because I made the switch two years ago but people who didn't before January, are they not eligible to be issued a USCA/AWDF book? This is way too complicate, lol!
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