This training method seems very cruel

ponyfarm · 01-09-2012, 02:28 PM

A friend of my mom's does schh with their dog. They love this dog. They explained to my mom the other day that he is getting too close to the helper before he is to "bite'. (sorry, probably explaining it all wrong!). Anyway, to get him to perform better, they are using an electric cattle prod and a sharpened prong.

WOW! I would imagine that once the dogs are ramped up, then the handler needs strong 'brakes', but that seems unfair, and cruel.

Is this common?

**Castlemaid** · 01-09-2012, 02:32 PM

NO!!! NOT common at all, totally nuts! I've heard of sharpened prongs before, but never heard of using a cattle prod! That's just crazy.

Emoore · 01-09-2012, 02:35 PM

IMHO, Schutzhund is a sport. It doesn't save lives or find lost children or solve world hunger. If your dog needs to be subjected to an electric cattle prod, sharpened prong, kicks in the testicles, or any of the other horror stories I've heard about a handful of trainers, you're playing the wrong sport or using the wrong trainer.

In all sports, some people's egos get in the way of their common sense. It's the exact same thing as using acid on gaited horses to make them step higher.

Liesje · 01-09-2012, 02:35 PM

I've seen one used but not for that reason.

N Smith · 01-09-2012, 02:36 PM

Not that I am aware of! That seems completely uneducated, and not even really "old-school", more like "never was a training method"...I think it would even be ridiculous to call it a training method at all.

I have only trained with 3 ScH clubs, so maybe I have just not "been around" enough, but I have never heard of using an electric cattle prod. I have heard of some "trainers" using sharpened prongs though.

The way I see it is, protection is a higher level of Obedience. If you can't get your dog to listen to you in front of the helper, then they should not be allowed in front of one until you can get them to listen without the helper present. It is SUPER dangerous to have an uncontrolled dog practicing protection (even in a sport), and the clubs I work with would NEVER allow this. Although, they would never use the cattle prod or sharpened prong either. If you have to use these tools, you never had control to begin with!

**Castlemaid** · 01-09-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

If you have to use these tools, you never had control to begin with!

Bingo!

Germanshepherdlova · 01-09-2012, 02:42 PM

BR870 · 01-09-2012, 03:54 PM

I was talking with Ez's breeder about this the other day. I was shocked that someone would use a cattle prod... Maybe I am naive but no dog is so hard that they need a cattle prod to get through to them

ponyfarm · 01-09-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoore

IMHO, Schutzhund is a sport. It doesn't save lives or find lost children or solve world hunger. If your dog needs to be subjected to an electric cattle prod, sharpened prong, kicks in the testicles, or any of the other horror stories I've heard about a handful of trainers, you're playing the wrong sport or using the wrong trainer.

In all sports, some people's egos get in the way of their common sense. It's the exact same thing as using acid on gaited horses to make them step higher.

In horse sports and dog sports, I think things go on "in the name of training" that go unspoken. Heads are turned. "We had to do it to train them. We still love them and take good care of them." Makes me sad.

gagsd · 01-09-2012, 04:00 PM

I have seen this plenty of times, in more than one "top-notch" club.

01-09-2012, 02:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
ponyfarm Master Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 548	This training method seems very cruel A friend of my mom's does schh with their dog. They love this dog. They explained to my mom the other day that he is getting too close to the helper before he is to "bite'. (sorry, probably explaining it all wrong!). Anyway, to get him to perform better, they are using an electric cattle prod and a sharpened prong. WOW! I would imagine that once the dogs are ramped up, then the handler needs strong 'brakes', but that seems unfair, and cruel. Is this common?

01-09-2012, 02:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Castlemaid Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern British Columbia Posts: 9,089	NO!!! NOT common at all, totally nuts! I've heard of sharpened prongs before, but never heard of using a cattle prod! That's just crazy. __________________ Lucia Keeta BH, OB1, TR1, AD (HOT) Rottweiler/Hairy Dog mix?? Shelter rescue Gryffon Vom Wildhaus BH, OFA Good (HOT) "Bites Through the Sleeve" Cuddlebug, b: Mar 2009

01-09-2012, 02:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 9,215	IMHO, Schutzhund is a sport. It doesn't save lives or find lost children or solve world hunger. If your dog needs to be subjected to an electric cattle prod, sharpened prong, kicks in the testicles, or any of the other horror stories I've heard about a handful of trainers, you're playing the wrong sport or using the wrong trainer. In all sports, some people's egos get in the way of their common sense. It's the exact same thing as using acid on gaited horses to make them step higher. __________________ Rocky vom Backyard- 10 years young Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 17 months At the Bridge: Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010

01-09-2012, 02:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,971	I've seen one used but not for that reason. __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

01-09-2012, 02:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Germanshepherdlova Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 2,935	__________________ You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Germa...96574693743892

01-09-2012, 02:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
N Smith Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Posts: 310	Not that I am aware of! That seems completely uneducated, and not even really "old-school", more like "never was a training method"...I think it would even be ridiculous to call it a training method at all. I have only trained with 3 ScH clubs, so maybe I have just not "been around" enough, but I have never heard of using an electric cattle prod. I have heard of some "trainers" using sharpened prongs though. The way I see it is, protection is a higher level of Obedience. If you can't get your dog to listen to you in front of the helper, then they should not be allowed in front of one until you can get them to listen without the helper present. It is SUPER dangerous to have an uncontrolled dog practicing protection (even in a sport), and the clubs I work with would NEVER allow this. Although, they would never use the cattle prod or sharpened prong either. If you have to use these tools, you never had control to begin with!

01-09-2012, 03:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
BR870 Master Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 828	I was talking with Ez's breeder about this the other day. I was shocked that someone would use a cattle prod... Maybe I am naive but no dog is so hard that they need a cattle prod to get through to them __________________ Rob Ezra von der Rennbahn Princess Abigail "Abbie" Kai (RIP) Loki (RIP)

01-09-2012, 04:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
gagsd Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 2,972	I have seen this plenty of times, in more than one "top-notch" club. __________________ Animals do not have rights. Owners have responsibilities. www.columbusworkingdogs.com

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