Unusual question on SchH

gsd_newbie · 09-26-2011, 06:45 AM

Apologize for my silly questions, and appreciate any inputs given.

1. For protection phase of SchH, owner/handler role seems less important compare to decoy role. In case of no decoy, can a dog's owner/handler taking role as a decoy to train his own dog?

2. Do dogs really hate the decoy? I mean do they will take any chance to give the decoy a real bad bite, or they just want some grips on the sleeve only?

Thanks

mareg · 09-26-2011, 07:04 AM

No, you dont want to do that beyond a little grip work.

They should not view the decoy/"helper" (have to watch our terminology) as a friend but many trial dogs are more than likely just working another phase of obedience rather than protections so.....

wolfstraum · 09-26-2011, 07:28 AM

1. Most people do not have the experience to do grip work without causing conflict and confusion in their dogs - and developing incorrect behaviors/grips as a result - there are some very experienced, knowledgeable people who ARE able to do this, but very few! I believe Vandal and Cliff have both made statements about this.

2. Depends on the dog and the decoy....proper behavior and nerves will allow the dog to react appropriately to the decoy as a threat or as a neutral person in a social environment.

Lee

Liesje · 09-26-2011, 08:16 AM

Just speaking from my own very limited experience...

1. No I would never do any sort of bitework or protection work decoying my own dogs, even if I did have the experience. The only things I do are some flirtpole for fun/exercise and some targeting (we do some bitesuit protection where I want the dogs biting certain parts of the body).

2. Depends on the dog and the training but I prefer dogs that react appropriately to the level of presence and threat and that is how we train. My dogs are neutral to the decoy when there is no threat. For example when we track our helper/decoy practices being a judge and walks right up on my dog while he's tracking and the dog doesn't care one bit. I don't let the helpers/decoys try to be-friend my dog other than playing with them as puppies.

Hillary_Plog · 09-26-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

1. Most people do not have the experience to do grip work without causing conflict and confusion in their dogs - and developing incorrect behaviors/grips as a result - there are some very experienced, knowledgeable people who ARE able to do this, but very few! I believe Vandal and Cliff have both made statements about this.

2. Depends on the dog and the decoy....proper behavior and nerves will allow the dog to react appropriately to the decoy as a threat or as a neutral person in a social environment.

Lee

I was in the middle of writing a response when I realized I was writing the same thing...best not to try and remake an already great response!

Freestep · 09-26-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsd_newbie

2. Do dogs really hate the decoy? I mean do they will take any chance to give the decoy a real bad bite, or they just want some grips on the sleeve only?

I suppose it depends on the dog, but in my experience, most dogs don't "hate" the helper. Some dogs seem to see the helper as a giant toy, if they are working in prey. When I was training Luka, she would attack, run around in a circle with the sleeve, the run back to the helper and hit him with it as if to say "Put it back on so I can bite you again!"

She also allowed the helper to pet her when not on the field.

Some dogs want to dominate the helper, but that's not the same thing as "hate".

gsd_newbie · 09-26-2011, 08:35 PM

Thanks all, for quick and valuable responses. I guess I am left behind since I could not find anyone who can help being a decoy in my area for now. Too bad for my dog, and for myself as well, SchH is definitely something we are looking forward to learn and to try. Maybe later!

onyx'girl · 09-26-2011, 08:37 PM

You can still track and do obedience, if the dog has 'it' the protection will come naturally. Get a group together for support and maybe a helper will find you...where are you located?

gsd_newbie · 09-26-2011, 08:45 PM

Of course I will keep continuous practicing the Tracking and Obedience, otherwise it would be super boring for both of us. I will keep my eyes open for an opportunity forming a group, hopefully there will be someone who got talent in decoy skills. I am in a country which you might consider as a jungle, it is Vietnam.

onyx'girl · 09-26-2011, 09:05 PM

ahh, you do have limited options then.

09-26-2011, 06:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
gsd_newbie Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 114	Unusual question on SchH Apologize for my silly questions, and appreciate any inputs given. 1. For protection phase of SchH, owner/handler role seems less important compare to decoy role. In case of no decoy, can a dog's owner/handler taking role as a decoy to train his own dog? 2. Do dogs really hate the decoy? I mean do they will take any chance to give the decoy a real bad bite, or they just want some grips on the sleeve only? Thanks

09-26-2011, 07:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
wolfstraum Crowned Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 7,089	1. Most people do not have the experience to do grip work without causing conflict and confusion in their dogs - and developing incorrect behaviors/grips as a result - there are some very experienced, knowledgeable people who ARE able to do this, but very few! I believe Vandal and Cliff have both made statements about this. 2. Depends on the dog and the decoy....proper behavior and nerves will allow the dog to react appropriately to the decoy as a threat or as a neutral person in a social environment. Lee __________________ Csabre Sch1, Hexe Sch2, Bengal, Kyra, Kira & Kougar v Wolfstraum ~ Basha Sch3, Ghost Sch3 - Danger Sch1 SAR - ATB/Ret - Kyra, Sch3, Alice Sch1, Kelsey, Fenja Sch3 wolfstraum.net

09-26-2011, 08:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,971	Just speaking from my own very limited experience... 1. No I would never do any sort of bitework or protection work decoying my own dogs, even if I did have the experience. The only things I do are some flirtpole for fun/exercise and some targeting (we do some bitesuit protection where I want the dogs biting certain parts of the body). 2. Depends on the dog and the training but I prefer dogs that react appropriately to the level of presence and threat and that is how we train. My dogs are neutral to the decoy when there is no threat. For example when we track our helper/decoy practices being a judge and walks right up on my dog while he's tracking and the dog doesn't care one bit. I don't let the helpers/decoys try to be-friend my dog other than playing with them as puppies. __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

09-26-2011, 07:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
mareg Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 56	No, you dont want to do that beyond a little grip work. They should not view the decoy/"helper" (have to watch our terminology) as a friend but many trial dogs are more than likely just working another phase of obedience rather than protections so.....

09-26-2011, 08:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
gsd_newbie Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 114	Thanks all, for quick and valuable responses. I guess I am left behind since I could not find anyone who can help being a decoy in my area for now. Too bad for my dog, and for myself as well, SchH is definitely something we are looking forward to learn and to try. Maybe later!

09-26-2011, 08:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,611	You can still track and do obedience, if the dog has 'it' the protection will come naturally. Get a group together for support and maybe a helper will find you...where are you located?

09-26-2011, 08:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
gsd_newbie Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 114	Of course I will keep continuous practicing the Tracking and Obedience, otherwise it would be super boring for both of us. I will keep my eyes open for an opportunity forming a group, hopefully there will be someone who got talent in decoy skills. I am in a country which you might consider as a jungle, it is Vietnam.

09-26-2011, 09:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,611	ahh, you do have limited options then.

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