Schutzhund & Prong/pinch collars

atruepastime · 07-05-2011, 08:52 AM

Hi all, I'm fairly new to the sport - we've had a total of 6 sessions to date at the club I attend, and I have been recommended to start using a prong collar on my 13 month old female gsd. I guess I was curious to know how important is it to use a prong collar in this sport - EVERYONE uses one at the club I train at and I'm wondering if its a stock standard method of correcting/ controlling a dog in this sport (aside from e-collars). Prior to starting Schutzhund I've been using a gentle leader in high traffic places, or a check chain on our walks/ runs. I rarely have to correct her when we are walking, just if there is another dog present it gives me added control as she will sometimes try to lunge to play with other dogs. Can I use other methods of correction (voice & check chain) or is the prong collar the best way to go? Thanks!

gagsd · 07-05-2011, 09:33 AM

If you do not need it, don't use it just becasue everyone else is.

I think most dogs need a prong, particularly in protection. But there are always those that are exceptions.
I use one in protection, but rarely in obedience. I don't use an electric collar, but 90% of our club does.

holland · 07-05-2011, 09:48 AM

my dog wore a prong but we rarely used it and I have been training with just a flat collar-used an e-collar for a short period of time

Liesje · 07-05-2011, 10:05 AM

If you used one, what would you use it for? If you're not sure how to answer that, then I wouldn't worry about using one just b/c others do. I have no problem with them and use them for a variety of things but I use it fairly proactively (meaning I don't "resort" to it b/c my dog is pulling or out of control or this or that...I start training a new behavior already knowing that I'm going to use the prong and how I'm going to use it).

atruepastime · 07-05-2011, 06:01 PM

Right, cool, good to know, my trainer was encouraging me to purchase one for my girl and whilst she was telling me that its kinder than the check chain and more natural for the dogs to perceive as a correction as you don't need to yank as hard as you do on a check chain because it mimicks another dogs bite.. I have still heard dogs scream at our club when they have been corrected with a hard tug on the prong, and also she (my trainer) mentioned that sometimes to switch a dog from barking during the hold and bark in prey drive (where the pitch of their bark can be a little high due to excitement) they give the dog a correction with the prong to switch on their defensive side a little to deepen the bark, which to me sounds like - you cause some pain to the dog so that its attitude of "this fun give me the sleeve", switches to "ouch that hurt you *&^% now your making me mad!" so that the dog sounds more serious.. we tried the prong on my dog to see how she went just wearing it while attached to a leash and she didn't have an issue, and was a dream to handle but I am iffy about using painful methods and I'm not convinced the prong collar doesn't operate on pain.. off course the check chain can be painful too.. just trying to figure out which one is kinder.. as the prong was certainly more effective.

cliffson1 · 07-05-2011, 09:11 PM

If you are fairly new, then I would recommend you listen to your TD. They have been when you are trying to go, have experienced what you are trying to do, and if they are worth their salt can easily determine if the prong will be beneficial to you and your dog. If you truly knew what was best you wouldn't be asking us on the forum as you would have the experience to know. So, since the TD is there....trust your TD

.

Ruthie · 07-05-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atruepastime

Right, cool, good to know, my trainer was encouraging me to purchase one for my girl and whilst she was telling me that its kinder than the check chain and more natural for the dogs to perceive as a correction as you don't need to yank as hard as you do on a check chain because it mimicks another dogs bite.. I have still heard dogs scream at our club when they have been corrected with a hard tug on the prong, and also she (my trainer) mentioned that sometimes to switch a dog from barking during the hold and bark in prey drive (where the pitch of their bark can be a little high due to excitement) they give the dog a correction with the prong to switch on their defensive side a little to deepen the bark, which to me sounds like - you cause some pain to the dog so that its attitude of "this fun give me the sleeve", switches to "ouch that hurt you *&^% now your making me mad!" so that the dog sounds more serious.. we tried the prong on my dog to see how she went just wearing it while attached to a leash and she didn't have an issue, and was a dream to handle but I am iffy about using painful methods and I'm not convinced the prong collar doesn't operate on pain.. off course the check chain can be painful too.. just trying to figure out which one is kinder.. as the prong was certainly more effective.

What made the decision for me using a prong is trying it out on my arm. I am not saying that you will feel the same as the dog will feel, but it should give you an idea of the difference between the two collars. I had the idea that the prongs dig into the neck like needles, but that isn't what it felt like. It feels like pinching. (Hence the collar also being called a pinch) The other advantage is that the prong pinches before it chokes. Although it does cause discomfort, it is more nagging than PAIN. Have you ever seen an older dog correct a younger dog? They pinch their neck with their teeth. It is quick and decisive and the puppy "gets it". I think of it as their natural language.

I have seen a dog choke himself out (dropped to the ground because he choked himself against his collar to the point that he couldn't breathe) because he was straining against a flat collar. If he wouldn't have been on a pinch that wouldn't have happened.

Although I feel strongly that you are the one who ultimately who has to decide what is best for your dog, I agree with Cliff. If your TD recommends it, and you don't have strong objections to the prong, give it a try. What your TD described worked for my Bison. He is high prey drive and it really helped deepen up his barking.

If you do have strong objections to the use of a prong, talk to your TD and see what other options you have.

Gloria · 07-05-2011, 09:54 PM

Prong collars cause less damage to the dog's trachea during corrections...if any damage at all. Dog Prong Collars: Humane Training Option or Medieval Torture Device?
In all honesty, I never wanted to get a prong collar because I thought it was barbaric and inhumane however our GSD is strong-willed and we'd tried other methods to get her to stop pulling for my 76-year-old Mother who takes her for walks; along with my Mom being able to control Nikita with confidence. After doing A LOT of research, I caved and got one....so glad I did. She walks so much better at a "heel" and I don't have to worry that my Mom can't control Nikita when she's out on a walk.
I think my problem with prong collars, originally, was due to the way they look. I put one on my arm and tightened it...all I felt was tightness...more comfortable than a choke chain. Would I recommend prong / pinch collars? Absolutely!

wolfspirit · 07-06-2011, 02:21 AM

I don't think you should feel pressured because everyone else does.

Everyone uses one at my club too and I was very much pressured to use one especially as I have a strong dog who has been hard to control in bitework. But I chose not to, just my own preference, I don't like the sport that much that I want to fight with him over it and risk damaging our relationship, especially since he has handler aggression issues in his line. I would rather that we go slower and he can learn positively how he needs to behave in order to get the bite and so far it is working.

Just my own opinion though and everyone works differently.

FG167 · 07-06-2011, 05:24 AM

I started putting one on my dog right away when suggested by my TD. It was more of a "later if we need to use it, he won't be collar smart" sort of thing. And then later, I did need to use it in some situations.

I have heard dogs scream with the pinch on but I know numerous dogs that do it out of being amped up and the pop is just bringing them higher. If that makes sense.

07-05-2011, 08:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
atruepastime Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 105	Schutzhund & Prong/pinch collars Hi all, I'm fairly new to the sport - we've had a total of 6 sessions to date at the club I attend, and I have been recommended to start using a prong collar on my 13 month old female gsd. I guess I was curious to know how important is it to use a prong collar in this sport - EVERYONE uses one at the club I train at and I'm wondering if its a stock standard method of correcting/ controlling a dog in this sport (aside from e-collars). Prior to starting Schutzhund I've been using a gentle leader in high traffic places, or a check chain on our walks/ runs. I rarely have to correct her when we are walking, just if there is another dog present it gives me added control as she will sometimes try to lunge to play with other dogs. Can I use other methods of correction (voice & check chain) or is the prong collar the best way to go? Thanks!

07-05-2011, 09:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
gagsd Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 2,972	If you do not need it, don't use it just becasue everyone else is. I think most dogs need a prong, particularly in protection. But there are always those that are exceptions. I use one in protection, but rarely in obedience. I don't use an electric collar, but 90% of our club does. __________________ Animals do not have rights. Owners have responsibilities. www.columbusworkingdogs.com

07-05-2011, 10:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,971	If you used one, what would you use it for? If you're not sure how to answer that, then I wouldn't worry about using one just b/c others do. I have no problem with them and use them for a variety of things but I use it fairly proactively (meaning I don't "resort" to it b/c my dog is pulling or out of control or this or that...I start training a new behavior already knowing that I'm going to use the prong and how I'm going to use it). __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

07-06-2011, 02:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
wolfspirit Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Up a mountain in central Italy Posts: 132	I don't think you should feel pressured because everyone else does. Everyone uses one at my club too and I was very much pressured to use one especially as I have a strong dog who has been hard to control in bitework. But I chose not to, just my own preference, I don't like the sport that much that I want to fight with him over it and risk damaging our relationship, especially since he has handler aggression issues in his line. I would rather that we go slower and he can learn positively how he needs to behave in order to get the bite and so far it is working. Just my own opinion though and everyone works differently. Last edited by wolfspirit; 07-06-2011 at 02:24 AM.

07-06-2011, 05:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
FG167 Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 1,428	I started putting one on my dog right away when suggested by my TD. It was more of a "later if we need to use it, he won't be collar smart" sort of thing. And then later, I did need to use it in some situations. I have heard dogs scream with the pinch on but I know numerous dogs that do it out of being amped up and the pop is just bringing them higher. If that makes sense. __________________ Falon ~ Kastle (GSD) ~ Eden (CWC) ~ Sketch (SM) ~ Click dogs' names to view individual blogs

07-05-2011, 09:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
holland Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,634	my dog wore a prong but we rarely used it and I have been training with just a flat collar-used an e-collar for a short period of time

07-05-2011, 06:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
atruepastime Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 105	Right, cool, good to know, my trainer was encouraging me to purchase one for my girl and whilst she was telling me that its kinder than the check chain and more natural for the dogs to perceive as a correction as you don't need to yank as hard as you do on a check chain because it mimicks another dogs bite.. I have still heard dogs scream at our club when they have been corrected with a hard tug on the prong, and also she (my trainer) mentioned that sometimes to switch a dog from barking during the hold and bark in prey drive (where the pitch of their bark can be a little high due to excitement) they give the dog a correction with the prong to switch on their defensive side a little to deepen the bark, which to me sounds like - you cause some pain to the dog so that its attitude of "this fun give me the sleeve", switches to "ouch that hurt you *&^% now your making me mad!" so that the dog sounds more serious.. we tried the prong on my dog to see how she went just wearing it while attached to a leash and she didn't have an issue, and was a dream to handle but I am iffy about using painful methods and I'm not convinced the prong collar doesn't operate on pain.. off course the check chain can be painful too.. just trying to figure out which one is kinder.. as the prong was certainly more effective.

07-05-2011, 09:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
cliffson1 Knighted Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,929	If you are fairly new, then I would recommend you listen to your TD. They have been when you are trying to go, have experienced what you are trying to do, and if they are worth their salt can easily determine if the prong will be beneficial to you and your dog. If you truly knew what was best you wouldn't be asking us on the forum as you would have the experience to know. So, since the TD is there....trust your TD .

07-05-2011, 09:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gloria Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 25	Prong collars cause less damage to the dog's trachea during corrections...if any damage at all. Dog Prong Collars: Humane Training Option or Medieval Torture Device? In all honesty, I never wanted to get a prong collar because I thought it was barbaric and inhumane however our GSD is strong-willed and we'd tried other methods to get her to stop pulling for my 76-year-old Mother who takes her for walks; along with my Mom being able to control Nikita with confidence. After doing A LOT of research, I caved and got one....so glad I did. She walks so much better at a "heel" and I don't have to worry that my Mom can't control Nikita when she's out on a walk. I think my problem with prong collars, originally, was due to the way they look. I put one on my arm and tightened it...all I felt was tightness...more comfortable than a choke chain. Would I recommend prong / pinch collars? Absolutely!

Remove Advertisements Sponsored Links
German Shepherd Advertisement