Late Bloomer? - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-18-2011, 08:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
elisabeth_00117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 8,763
Default

Honestly, it really made me realize what *I* was doing to Stark.... compare my dog now, to this dog then.... wowzers!

I think some people misunderstood what I was trying to say, which is fine because I didn't really know how to say it, but some in that thread (Samba, Lies, Jason) REALLY helped me... I learned soooo much from this thread and I honestly think it helped Stark and I so much. It definitely made me realize what I was doing wrong, what I needed to do to get the best/most from my dog.
__________________
K-W German Shepherd Club
elisabeth_00117 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-18-2011, 10:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
sagelfn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,766
Default

Nothing to add except do read the ball drive thread! It's long but excellent!
__________________
-Brandi

Sage 6-5-09
Facebook
sagelfn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2011, 11:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
cliffson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
Default

Continue to work your dog in the harness with tugs and flirtpoles. With DDR dogs the light may come on at 11 months or it may be 17 months or may be as late as 2 years. But the imprinting is good as long as its fun and the dog is continuing to chase....don't worry about the grips at this point.
cliffson1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 02:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
Rei
Elite Member
 
Rei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 1,428
Default

From what you have said of his pedigree, I think you have a great dog in your hands. I was recently looking at a few dogs from lines similar to your pup's, and have liked them all. However, I am also surprised that you were sold such a puppy as a mondioring prospect, given the nature of the sport and these lines.

You will be surprised at how much more your dog will mature. My dog will be 2 years old next month, in February. He is mostly West German working lines with some DDR through Muchta v Schwarzhorn and of course Don v Haus Iris. At 12 -14 months old he was still very mentally immature and had I worked him in Schutzhund then I would be willing to bet that he would be working in all prey and play. Now he is altogether a very different dog. He judges perceived threats with a willingness to listen to my requests, and his triggers and thresholds have changed for prey and for defense. His behavior in every day life shows a constantly alert dog aware of his surroundings and quick to defend but also with the ability to active displays of aggression under certain circumstances (and frankly, making me feel a lot safer about walking the streets at night).

Even playing tug with him is different now, and as extreme as it may sound, there are certain people I will not allow to play tug with him. I understand now why many Schutzhund clubs to not stress the protection stage until after a dog is mature. A puppy that thinks it's just a game of chase may take Schutzhund very seriously at 2 or 3 years of age. I know I look forward personally to starting my dog in Schutzhund so I can watch him grow and develop further and learn more about him.

But that being said, you can also "ruin" a dog, and I have seen it happen. Two very nice dogs out of an imported Grafental sire and dam, put into the wrong hands and trainer. They were pushed too far, too quickly, and too soon. While the point re: too much OB is a good one, too much pressure and certain types of training methods can be damaging. Sometimes a club more accustomed to working with Malinois pups may not find that their methods work when employed to a slower maturing, less prey oriented DDR pup. I am not saying that people who train Mals can't train German Shepherds, of course, but just that you should keep in mind that you have a puppy right now. Don't expect or ask too much at this point. Imprinting and foundation work is great for now, as Cliff said.
__________________
Trent - 2/20/09 German Shepherd Dog

Bree - 2/11/08 Tuxedo DLH Cat

Raina - 8/12/11 Black Smoke DLH Cat

Rei is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 10:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
 
Chris Wild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 13,570
Default

I wouldn't say "late bloomer". I'd say NORMAL for a pup of these lines, particularly a male. While I agree that DDR lines are typically not the best choice for sport work like SchH, and especially the ring sports, and even moreso for a novice handler, that's neither here nor there at the moment as you've got the dog. The challenge now is being patient for him to mature, and also finding helpers/decoys/training group who have the knowledge, skill, and patience to work with a dog who doesn't fit their desired mold of a crazy prey monster at a young age. This may require finding another place to train.

Even with higher drive, quicker maturing lines I would not be quick to wash out a dog at 7 months for lacking "intensity" and "courage". It's a baby. Obvious nerve issues, fearful behavior, and that sort of thing yes. But not because the puppy isn't gangbusters over chasing around a helper with a rag. Many lines, particularly DDR, do not show much prey drive at all, much less early on. Defense and aggression matures much later and these dogs can be very strong in protection. But one needs to wait for maturity and then approach protection from the standpoint of something much more serious, giving the dog a reason to work, not treating it as a game.

Even with our own dogs who are much quicker to mature and higher in prey, and thus would chase a helper waving a rag around at this age, we don't do it. Maybe a couple times here and there, but with most we don't start protection until at least a year old, maybe older. Or if we do do some early drive and grip work when young, the dog then gets put up for quite a while to grow out a bit before moving to the next step. Maturity brings a variety and balance of drives with which to work, things that pups just don't have, and this way we can treat the work more seriously and not just as a game becuase frankly it shouldn't be just a game, even though many do approach it as such.

Give him a year, maybe more, to mature. You'll probably see a very different dog then. But it will still be imperative to find a training group who knows how to read the dog and work him appropriately for who he is, not work him like other dogs of very different temperament. Given this current training group is quick to wash him out because he doesn't act like a prey monger at this age, getting good training that is appropriate for your dog may well require finding a training group more open to working dogs of different types, and adjusting the type of work to fit what each individual dog needs, not trying to fit all puppies into the mold of what they prefer and dismissing those who don't automatically fit that mold.
__________________
Wildhaus Kennels
Chris Wild is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 11:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Jason L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaBriz View Post
He's very polite, and consious of not being too rough (especially with me).
This is really the only thing I would work on right now ... to get him to be more exuberant and pushy around you, to teach him to be active instead of reactive (reactive in the sense of waiting for you to initiate play). It does not even need to involve a ball or tug. It can just be you two goofing around and roughhousing but just get him to loosen up and be a little "less polite" around you.

Everything else (rag, decoy work, etc.) I would leave alone for now.

Last edited by Jason L; 01-19-2011 at 11:21 AM.
Jason L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 11:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Emoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,706
Default

So for someone who has a pup from these lines (ahem) and just wants to do fun enjoyable hobbies with their dog without ruling out Sch down the road, what would you recommend? Not formal obedience? Maybe rally? Agility?

Also, we are all about natural exuberance and happy, pushy dogs in this house. But can a dog be taught to be polite and respectful of a disabled relative without squashing his natural exuberance and pushyness?
__________________
Rocky vom Backyard- 12 1/2 years
Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 3 1/2 years

At the Bridge:
Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010
Emoore is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 12:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
elisabeth_00117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 8,763
Default

Emoore, from my personal experience with Stark, if you plan to do obedience... ensure you are going to the right trainer who understands your future intents (even if they are just a "maybe we will try that later on").

I did several "pet obedience courses with Stark and he was very polite with me, I rewarded calm behaviours and got just that... I squashed his drive, I totally believe that. It has taken me MONTHS and MONTHS to get to the point where I am today with him.

I would recommend doing obedience at a schH club if you have any intention of trying the sport, this way they can help you get started in the right direction. Agility is good too!
__________________
K-W German Shepherd Club
elisabeth_00117 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 12:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Jason L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,014
Default

Emoore, I think agility is a great idea and there is a place in our area that I highly recommend called Dallas Dog Sport (it's Dottie's agility place so I am biased!)

Pre-Agility

They run a great pre-agility program that places a nice balance between drive and control. Perfect for a future sports dog!
Jason L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2011, 12:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Jason L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 3,014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoore View Post
Also, we are all about natural exuberance and happy, pushy dogs in this house. But can a dog be taught to be polite and respectful of a disabled relative without squashing his natural exuberance and pushyness?
I think so. Environmentally, you can set it up so that "house" means "quiet, no play, behave" (for example, don't play with the pup inside the house. No toys other than chew toys or kong) and then when you take the pup outside, all heck breaks loose and let him go nuts. You can even condition him to go nuts on a particular area outside. You see this a lot with young SchH dogs. As soon as they step on the training field, they go bonkers because they have been classically conditioned to associate training field with chasing ball, tugging, biting, etc.
Jason L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum