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Why won't a rescue place a spayed female into my home with in tact males?

13K views 142 replies 38 participants last post by  JeanKBBMMMAAN 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Removed email - not allowed to post personal emails without permission from the party who sent them on this board, even in the rescue section. Jean, admin
Can anyone involved with rescues please explain why I have been shunned because I have 3 in tact males with 1 spayed female? I wanted to adopt another female from a rescue, and she would either come spayed (the rescue never made it clear) or I would pay to get her spayed (I would never allow an oops litter), but the above quote is what I received from them as their final answer.

If my females are all fixed, why would it matter if my males are in tact? My holistic vet and I agreed to keep the males in tact for the medical benefits. The vet also agreed that the medical benefits are greater for a spayed female versus an in tact female. He broke it all down and it made total sense, and I had been researching it for 2 years before coming to that final decision, supported by my vet.

I'm steaming inside right now, but am trying to deflate my emotions before I reply to the rescue. I want to blast them for this decision knowing the dog I wanted will go to a lesser home because the rescue can't think outside their own little box. So sad for me, and sad for the dog, and I feel bad for these people in rescue who are wearing blinders.
 
#2 ·
And re-reading what they wrote, are they trying to say that anyone who keeps an in tact animal, who is not breeding or showing them, is IRRESPONSIBLE? Did I read that right? I can almost guarantee that I take better care of my animals than they take care of their own. Did they really just say that to me?

Calm down...calm down emotions...calm down...blood is boiling, so I might be misunderstanding their meaning.

I am against overpopulatin and oops litters just as they are, so I get that part. Is that what is driving this? Ugh!
 
#35 ·
And re-reading what they wrote, are they trying to say that anyone who keeps an in tact animal, who is not breeding or showing them, is IRRESPONSIBLE? Did I read that right? I can almost guarantee that I take better care of my animals than they take care of their own. Did they really just say that to me?

Calm down...calm down emotions...calm down...blood is boiling, so I might be misunderstanding their meaning.

I am against overpopulatin and oops litters just as they are, so I get that part. Is that what is driving this? Ugh!
Yes, yes, and yes! ;)
 
#3 ·
You don't know the dog will go to a lesser home at all. Everything happens for a reason. Regular vets and holistic vets will never agree on these things and most rescues don't use holistic vets. Take a deep breath.
 
#5 ·
So here's why I say "lesser home":

It's not that I'm full of myself or think I'm better than anyone else. It's just that, I know how my friends, family, co-workers, strangers I see out and about, etc. take care of their dogs. I know we are all doing things differently, but when it comes to training, diet, exercise, grooming, etc. I rarely meet people who are as deep into any of the above as I am. Where did I learn to be so good at this? From you guys on this forum and other dog forums, and from research and books! I'm sure there are plenty of you on this forum who are more knowledgeable and responsible than I am, and I look up to you, which is how I learn to better myself for my dogs. But I think we are in the top 5% of all dog owners, at least based on my experiences in person with everyone I meet.

Instead of being holier than thou, I try to help others when they ask me about dog-related stuff. I want to pass on what I've learned (from all of you) to anyone and everyone who is wanting to also better themselves. But again, we are the minority. And I do understand that what works for one dog might not work for another. I'm not close-minded or elitist.

Sure, this dog could luck out and go to an awesome home, but based on the stats of the majority of dog owners, I feel comfortable and confident that she probably will not. This is why I am saddened that they cannot look past their own walls they've built. They built their wall of rules so tall that they cannot even see out anymore.
 
#6 ·
To me...a home with 4 dogs, isn't that great of a home for another one. Just cause you train, feed good food, do whatever else you do, still means you have to divide your time and energy between 5 dogs. I can almost guarantee that if I watched you interact on a daily basis with your dogs, Id find plenty of short comings IMO. Just like someone else would find plenty of short coming based on their own opinions from the way I live with my two dogs.

The idea that you make the claim that you're in the top 5% of owners is pretty funny.

Most rescues will see anyone that has an intact animal as contributing to the pet over population issue and not helping the problem that they deal with daily. I know most of us won't agree on this, but having an intact male, no matter how responsible you are, still means there is a higher chance your dog impregnates a female and produces unwanted puppies. This is why vets and rescues push spay/neuter. You can't trust close to 99/100 people with an intact animal, and it's pretty hard to convince people that meet those 99 on a daily basis that you're the 1 that can do it. Btw...all that said, my male is intact.

This is just one of those things you should let go. Rescues have their rules, I'm almost more surprised they didn't raise the fact that you have 4 other dogs as an issue. Many times it's hard to make sure two dogs will get along, let alone 5...
 
#10 ·
The idea that you make the claim that you're in the top 5% of owners is pretty funny.
I would bet that 95% of dog owners are not wasting their precious time on dog forums to better themselves, learning and absorbing information, so their dogs can live a better life. Most of them that I know beat their dogs in the name of "training", stick their noses in poo and pee when they have an accident, nickname them "dumb dog" and "stupid," don't walk them, feed them crap food, don't groom them, don't do obedience, etc. There are a TON of dog owners in the world, and we are the minority on this forum and other dog forums. And then out of the people on the forums, you have people who are obviously more responsible and knowledgeable, and people who aren't and don't care, or are still learning. That's awesome! And sure, there are small percentages of people who are amazing dog owners that don't know about, or don't care about getting online to visit dog forums. I get that.

I have just been so into dogs these last 7 years (never owned a dog until I bought Nara from a breeder), that I have people who have owned dogs their entire lives come ask me for help. It should be the other way around. And again, it's not a brag. It's a compliment to how dedicated and passionate I am about my dogs and dogs in general, and also I'm just stating the truth and facts. If it were the other way around, I'd have no problem admitting to it. I don't think I'm better than anyone else. I want (to help) everyone to put their dogs on such a pedestal like we do. I'm all about picking people up to walk with me versus stepping on them to make myself look better/higher.
 
#7 ·
don't even sweat it. i was denied a kitten from the pound 'cause the people there wanted to give the kittens to families with kids. if you really have your heart on saving a dog, try with another rescue but lie about your male dogs or keep an eye out on local kill shelters. i have heard but am not sure that kill shelters are less picky who they hand an animal over to.
 
#11 ·
So doing something wrong for the right reasons .. makes it right? Eh no. That's a slippery slope. It's childish to hedge and lie to get what we want. Adults know better and should do better. We should expect more out of ourselves than that. I'm sorry that Counter was unable to get this dog; however, I'm sure that he will find a dog if he wants another and be able to do it without having to lower his standards of conduct for himself.
 
#13 ·
My experience with rescues, especially rescues of specialized breeds like shepherds and border collies - no small dogs, no intact dogs, must have fenced yard. I got denied many times for the first two reasons. It doesn't matter how great of a dog owner you may really be, because to them, they've a checklist they are going by.
 
#14 ·
Go to the head of the rescue if you really want this particular dog, or try a different rescue.

There is a lot of discussion regarding keeping dogs intact at least through puberty for medical reasons. But if this particular rescue/person does not see it as enough to change their policy then there is little you can do. You can forward them data, or have your vet write a note.
 
#15 ·
Rescues get lied to all the time - that's why they do so many checks. You know, the checks people complain about, because the 'rescue is making them jump through hoops'? Yeah, well, you can thank all the dishonest people for bringing that about and making it necessary.

OP, I do not know of any rescue that will allow placement of a dog into a home with unaltered pets. I'm sure there are case, by case circumstances that the rescue would consider - the resident dog is too old, or too ill, etc. But pretty much, it would be a no.

I adopted both of my dogs as puppies from shelters. They were both speutered, before they were handed over to me. It stunk that my 7 - 8 WEEK old puppies were speutered. I would have loved for them to have been older. The shelter has a policy and I respect that. I understand why they find it necessary. And yes, every shelter application I have ever completed asks if all my other pets are spayed/neutered.

I have other options and so do you. You need to accept the policies of the rescue. Also, while I love this board and have learned a lot, I took excellent care of my dogs for decades, before being a member here. Heck, my GSD was 10 years old, when I joined. Being a member here doesn't make me a better or worse owner than anyone else.
 
#16 ·
This is good to know. I would have considered a rescued female for my next dog in a few years, but I am not going to chop up my male just to be able to rescue a spayed female.

As far as the comment on 4 dogs being too many. I know people who have multiple dogs that absolutely thrive and people with 1 dog who have one dog too many.
 
#18 ·
As far as the comment on 4 dogs being too many. I know people who have multiple dogs that absolutely thrive and people with 1 dog who have one dog too many.
Totally agree. To me, the four dogs we have is to much. But my friend has up to 8 Newfs, Berners and Great Pyr's at any given time and her pack is wonderfully behaved and happy.

What isn't ok for one, has no bearing on what is right for another.

Nancy - I'm waiting for the day I can adopt a CWD or MWD. :)
 
#17 ·
I do believe that rescues can be too hard nosed about some of their policies... When a proven good home arises and they are denied on a technicality (and this is one of them) they are just hurting themselves, the dog, and wasting precious resources. They should have a committee where they can evaluate the given policy that is hindering the adopter, and see if an exception is advantageous. To just disregard and go hard line on it really is not showing wise management of resources.

I'm not saying to disregard every applicant with a rule discrepancy, obviously... But there are those like the OP whose situation would not cause harm or an 'oops' litter... Definitely a shame..
 
#22 ·
You're own words on why you shouldn't be adding another dog:

We both agreed that we are maxed out and strapped financially. I just can't see myself as a 1-dog person.
You aren't any where near a 1 dog person now. Only because you posted it publicly asking for comments would I say this. Be happy with the four. There's no good reason to look for a 5th.
 
#24 ·
Counter,

I emphasize with you totally. When I had my wolfdogs, I never neutered the males, they were easier to keep than the male GSDs I have had that I kept intact. I never had a neutered male canine until I got rescues. My males never sired a litter of oops puppies, either. And if I ever buy another male puppy from a breeder, he will not be neutered. And I will never get a puppy from a rescue--they neuter and spay WAY, WAY too young.

That being said, the rescues rarely if ever break their own rules. I'll give you an example why:
My sister has been in and out of mental institutions for nearly 5 years. Each time she has to go inpatient, there is another rule about what the patients can take in with them and what they can't. Example--no shoelaces, no scarves, no sweatpants or hoodies with any strings (we cut them out). The list goes on, even with things as simple as shampoo. Several of the workers explained to us that whenever we see a new rule, that means that something terrible has happened, a patient found some ingenious way to hurt him/herself or someone else, with something they were allowed to bring in. Thus, that item is then forever banned for everyone.

Rescues deal with thousands of dogs going to thousands of homes, and I am positive that they have seen many, many bad results from situations that had maybe one thing that wasn't perfect in the rescue's eyes. So please don't take the rejection personally... It's not you at fault, but all the idiots who did stupid things before you came along. I was once asked by one rescue to do a home check for them on someone within my area, and I thought the home was going to be perfect for a 3 month old puppy. I didn't get any negative vibes at all, neither did the rescue when they talked to the person on the phone, a mother with two children who said and did all the right things. That adoption turned out so bad I swore I would never be involved in home checks or anything else like it ever again, and I meant it.

So there is another side to the story, even though those of us on this forum do know your home is probably better than most of ours. Cool down, cut your losses, and look elsewhere. Believe me, I know what it is to be the type that gets your heart set on a particular animal, and you get as excited as though you were a child again. That's me all over. But I've also learned in over 6 decades on this earth, things don't always work out your way.

Regards and sympathy,
Susan
 
#31 · (Edited)
There is no other side of the story... The dogs they give can be neutered.. Fair enough....

They have no say in the health of my current dogs!!!!

Maybe my dog has hip dysplasia... Maybe its a pup... Neutering it will impact it's development and likely cause more deterioration...

Neutering is a health issue and a personal choice...

If they neuter all dogs the give out... That is fine... But they have NO SAY on the health of my OTHER DOGS!!!

They could check my living conditions and weather the other dog may or may not be a good fit... But they can not influence my choices on the HEALTH of my other dogs...
 
#26 · (Edited)
Susan, you're right. They told me about people in similar situations (military, young children, etc.) that returned their dogs for whatever reason. They are worried that I would do the same. Well, I'm not the same. I don't like being punished based on what other idiots did before me. When I accept a new pet into my household, I am sworn to love and protect that animal until one of us dies. I told the rescue that. If I can't bring an animal with me overseas, or in an apartment, etc. I won't live there. I'll find someplace else or some better option. I give my animals my word, and would never just give them back, give them away, put them down, put them up on Craigslist, because my living situation (new baby, whatever, we've read all the excuses) has changed. I'm not that guy. It's insulting to me to be lumped into all of that, especially after how hard I work with my animals, and how much money I've dedicated to them, and how many I've rescued and will continue to rescue.
 
#27 ·
I think it is riskier to add another female to your spayed female than to the intact males. How many hours do you have in your day to work all 5? Adding another female might very well disrupt the (probable) harmony you have now.
I have found from the past (4 dogs) that "more" is not always more fun. I currently have one dog and it is very peaceful and I can work with her often. I still see dogs I would love but I am not going to do it. But everyone is different. If you are set on another dog and you can't get one from a rescue, you could always go to a breeder or rescue a local dog that needs a home.
 
#28 ·
Speaking for rescues, please keep in mind that we are ALL volunteers. Every dog coming into rescue needs to be evaluated. A rescue person has to go to the shelter, or home, to meet that dog. After the evaluation, he/she must write up a report and give a recommendation on whether or not to accept that dog. Upon approval, dogs are posted on a 'needs foster' list. Some of these dogs have health issues, or need socialization, or other special care. If/when a foster is found, someone needs to pull and transport the dog. The foster is responsible for getting the dog to the vet, taking the dog to adoption events, communicating with potential adopters, and finalizing adoptions. Other volunteers screen applicants, check references, do vet checks and home visits. Volunteers hold many positions within the organization - intake, website, BOD, coordinators for pretty much everything. It requires a ton of man hours. Everyone gets the same pay - ZERO.

The rules are in place. It may, or may not be possible to bend the rules. The board needs to make a decision every time an exception is needed. It is unrealistic to expect them to do this for every application. Volunteers are people with real lives, families, jobs, etc. We all want to see the dog go into the best possible home. No one wants to see a family struggle with a dog that is not a good match, or a dog be mistreated. I can't say I have ever seen a dog returned to rescue in better shape than when it left. So, like Susan said, this is why there are rules. In rescue, you get to see the very best in people. You also get to see the very worst.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I am steaming inside too... They are freaking clueless... And they are depriving the poor dog froim a good home because they lack a basic education...

Wheather your other dogs are neutered or not is none of their business... They are placing a neutered dog in your home... They cant deny a dog a good home JUST BECAUSE YOUR OTHER MALES ARE NOT NEUTERED!!! THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION FOR ALL OF US....

You can judge living conditions, fit of dogs family dynamic... BUT DONT GO TELLING ME I HAVE TO NEUTER MY PREVIOUS DOGS OR MY CHILDREN BECAUSE OF YOUR FLAWED MORAL VALUES....

Also I am not sold that Neutering a dog has increased health benefits... Overall I feel strongly that all things equal... Neutering causes more health issues than it solves. (Try argue that to them... Like talking to a wall).

Neutering makes sence from a Dog control issue (i.e. preventing unwanted pregnancies....) Sometimes if there are certain conditions like a retained testicle with high risk of cancer... BUT IT IS NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION....

I think give us the email... Or sign a petition... Ill put my name on it...
 
#32 ·
So basically...you want to force them to give you a dog just because you are who you are.

YOU have a choice to neuter/spay your animal. THEY have a choice not to give you another animal.

THEY aren't forcing you to neuter/spay your animals. YOU don't have to get an animal from that place, it's not the only place in the world that has dogs.

I love when people get all up in arms about their personal choices, but think that it's not fair for another person or organization to make their own personal choices.
 
#37 ·
I have been denied by a rescue before. I'm actually not sure why but I didn't get all bent out of shape. All of my animals are rescues and I will only ever adopt. When I got denied I contacted additional rescues and was accepted by several. I then found the perfect dog (for me) and adopted him.

I have also volunteered for several rescues and was a very active volunteer with a gsd rescue in Wisconsin. I cannot tell you how many people were furious with me because they weren't given the dog they wanted. Everyone thinks they are the "best home" and my experience was that there really are many wonderful homes out there. I certainly think that about my home. :p

Volunteers do their best to find the right fit for the animal. Most rescues won't adopt to a home with intact animals because of pet overpopulation here in the U.S. However, shelters do not necessarily have this rule. Therefore, if you have intact animals you might consider adopting a shelter dog.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Reason people are upset is not being denied a dog for some justifiable reason...

It is the reason why...
You cant tell people what to do on completely independent dogs...
Neutering is a health concern as much as a social concern...

1 size does not fit all dogs...
You cant force people to do a medical procedure on their own bought intact dogs... Just so they can help and save a dog...

Its completely and utterly incompetent.....

I can often tell dogs that were neutered at a young age immediately just by looking at them... Their structure and development is compromised. Neutering is not a 1 size fits all procedure...

I can understand neutering the dogs that come from the shelter... Fine... But dont tell somebody they HAVE TO Neuter their Pure Bred Bought GSD's, otherwise they are ineligeble to help a dog without a home...

You can chose not to place a dog with somebody, because of living conditions... Screening various things... But not the health status on a completely independent and different dog...

If anything it takes away from the gene pool... of GSD's..
 
#40 ·
As Selzer said, you can usually find older female dogs who need a home from a breeder. That's where I got my Leia. :) However I do understand your frustration. It is one of a few reasons that I ended up going against rescue.

The thing that gets me however is the implication that because your pet is intact that it will add to the population. My youngest dog is still intact. I have been on the fence about if I am going to neuter him or not, and with his heart, I want that all figured out before he goes under anesthesia for anything. Even if its likely not something all that bad. I was talking with a friend about it (who altered her male dogs around 6 months) and told her I wasn't sure. Her response was that I better not let him breed.

This is a person who has known me for over a decade. Who knows that we've had 3 or so intact males in the house at once with females in heat with no accidents. My dogs stay with me and I work very hard to have my dogs be some of the best behaved out there (not perfect but they can fool people). I had to stare at her for that one.

I have seen some crazy reasons to neuter. Like this insanely huge paraprostatic cyst the other day. It was twice the size of the dog's bladder. Absolutely crazy! Though if something happens with the prostate, neutering tends to make a big difference then for certain lol.
 
#43 ·
No one is pressuring anyone! There isn't a gun to anyone's head when it comes to adopting a dog!

A private organization has the right to refuse a dog to anyone and have any kind of rules they feel like having. I love how you think that it's perfectly fine for you or anyone else to make the PERSONAL choice to not spueter an animal, yet there is a problem when an organization makes their own choice.

There are thousands of rescues across the United States, if you feel that compelled to rescue, you can find one that will give you a dog. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this one refusing to give someone a dog because they have intact animals. This isn't pressure, this isn't anything. It's just a guideline that the shelter has chosen to follow.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Yet these same people are constantly asking for DONATIONS to do their work...

And I am inclined to give them donations, simply for the dogs...

There is a shared responsibility with the public in what they decide to do and what not to do.

They can neuter all the dogs they look after... Fine, and I agree... But why try bully people to neuter THEIR own personal dogs...

There would be serious litigation and law cases if citizens needed to get sterlised just to buy an apple phone...

It is not Apple or your local bruger joint... Who can take any direction they want...

And I would even argue that your local burger joint also cant do whatever they like for example... I.e. selling bad food that can make you sick... Or denying a person of colour for example service? Sound Familiar? Yep happened in many countries...

No private institution can do whatever they like... Especially when often run substantially on donations and/or govenrment funds
 
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