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-   -   Rescue tips (moved from Chat) (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/rescue-foster-adoption-information-general/453498-rescue-tips-moved-chat.html)

misslesleedavis1 05-23-2014 10:30 AM

Rescue tips (moved from Chat)
 
Everyone always talks about the importance of finding a good breeder, what about the importance of finding a good rescue for those of us who choose rescue over buying.
I think one of the biggest questions id ask is, do they help dogs in their iwn province or state, to me its a red flag if they are pulling dogs into the province yet refuse to help out locally.
Anyone got any good advice?

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Kaimeju 05-23-2014 11:40 AM

I would want to know about their placement rate, their process for evaluating dogs, how they choose foster homes, do they have good relationships with local veterinarians, what kind of support do they provide after adoption, what do they do if an adoption fails, are they mainly pulling from kill shelters, private owners, or both, are they a 501(c)3, do they work with other rescues, do they have a physical building or main location...lots of stuff. I don't even know if there's a "right" answer to any of those questions, I just think they should be able to answer them without any weirdness or red flags. I used to think rescues that operated entirely out of foster homes were a good idea, but after trying to foster for one, I realized that it can make things unnecessarily crazy. I also find it really irritating when organizations say they have a process and then don't follow through/make exceptions out of lack of time. For example, it would bother me a lot if they said everyone needed a home check, but they skipped out on it occasionally because they just assumed from the application alone that it must be okay.

Mary Beth 05-23-2014 09:21 PM

Kaimeju has a great list. I would ask those questions and also if the rescue has references.

llombardo 05-23-2014 11:09 PM

Things are so different then before. I remember I was quite shocked to see that rescues were charging 250-300 to adopt a dog. I still can't get past that really. One can go to the shelter and get three dogs for that price and save a dog that could be due to die that very day. I am also confused that local rescues get dogs from other states and even countries. I don't understand why they do that when the need is so great locally. The dog I fostered for a rescue was from Beirut and he was a street dog. My dad adopted him and couldn't handle him, so I got him now. He is a sweet dog and deserves to be in a home. There are just so many homeless dogs, that I just get depressed seeing all of them at pet stores or on facebook:(

LifeofRiley 05-23-2014 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llombardo (Post 5559378)
Things are so different then before. I remember I was quite shocked to see that rescues were charging 250-300 to adopt a dog. I still can't get past that really. One can go to the shelter and get three dogs for that price and save a dog that could be due to die that very day. I am also confused that local rescues get dogs from other states and even countries. I don't understand why they do that when the need is so great locally. The dog I fostered for a rescue was from Beirut and he was a street dog. My dad adopted him and couldn't handle him, so I got him now. He is a sweet dog and deserves to be in a home. There are just so many homeless dogs, that I just get depressed seeing all of them at pet stores or on facebook:(

@llombardo, as you know, the rescue you are referring to is one that I have volunteered for. Actually, they are one of my favorite rescues to foster for due to many factors…. most importantly, they give me a lot of discretion in making the final decision as to who my foster dog is adopted out to.

I know that most of the dogs they help are local/regional/neighboring southern states. They are one of the few all-breed rescues in the area that will pull GSDs from local shelters as well as regional shelters. They have also been the rescue that has stepped in to help several GSDs whose stories have been posted on this forum – the GSD that was shot and left for dead in Gary, Indiana is one good example of that. I have also helped them bring into rescue several GSDs/ other breeds whose owners were going to surrender to local kill shelters.

As you know, the rescue will take back any dog that they have taken into rescue. If you do not want to care for the dog your Dad adopted, let them know. They will help you.

llombardo 05-24-2014 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeofRiley (Post 5559458)
@llombardo, as you know, the rescue you are referring to is one that I have volunteered for. Actually, they are one of my favorite rescues to foster for due to many factors…. most importantly, they give me a lot of discretion as to who my foster dog is adopted out to.

I know that most of the dogs they help are local/regional/neighboring southern states. They are one of the few all-breed rescues in the area that will pull GSDs from local shelters as well as regional shelters. They have also been the rescue that has stepped in to help several GSDs whose stories have been posted on this forum – the GSD that was shot and left for dead in Gary, Indiana is one good example of that. I have also helped them bring into rescue several GSDs/ other breeds whose owners were going to surrender to local kill shelters.

As you know, the rescue will take back any dog that they have taken into rescue. If you do not want to care for the dog your Dad adopted, let them know. They will help you.

Oh no you misunderstood. I think they are a great rescue and good people. I was referring to rescues in general. And you are correct they would take my dads dog back if I chose to do so. Sadly my dad is having health issues and It looks like I would have ended up with the dog anyway. Since he is a part of my dad I choose to keep him so I have something of my dad. They just helped me get a female GSD out of not so great situation. They are wonderful people. I was more so pointing out that the dog is from Beirut and even if he is from another place he still needed a home, which is not something I understood or agreed with before (I didn't use enough words in my first post, if should have read then I fostered a dog that came from Beirut) I watch this dog run and play and it makes me smile. It makes me feel good to know that he never has to sleep outside again or look in dumpsters for food. When he curls up in bed at night and sighs I know its a content sigh not one of desperation. Darn if if I don't have an issue explaining myself completely when I write. I would live to help them out more but I got my hands full. I do still think that prices they (they in general)charge have gone up quite a bit compared to before.

Magwart 05-24-2014 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llombardo (Post 5559378)
I was quite shocked to see that rescues were charging 250-300 to adopt a dog. I still can't get past that really.

I'm *all* for saving shelter dogs. There's a big, big difference in the quality of vet care they receive compared to rescue though--expect significant follow-up vet bills post-adoption with a shelter dog. A $250 rescue adoption fee is a good deal if the rescue fully vets the dogs.

I know a lot of people balk at rescue adoption fees, so I want to use this as an opportunity to try to lay out where they come from. It's usually not a rescue being greedy.

Add up the cost to full vet a healthy dog (speuter, two sets of shots, rabies, microchip w/ activation, fecal test, and HW test, flea and HW prevention, and deworming, as that's almost always needed). Then realize hardly any dogs need just that basic stuff. It costs my rescue $150-200 to fully vet a dog, and I'm in a very cheap area with vets who give us great pricing--and that's assuming no pull fee. At $200, we barely break even on a healthy dog.

Most of them aren't healthy when we get them, either. Most of them need lots of additional care. I'm sitting on vet bills close to $1,000 for a single dog with major skin infection that was treatable, but expensive. HW treatment for another one this week was just $400 (not including the cost of Doxy, which runs about $100). If we waived the actual adoption fee and instead asked adopters to reimburse the rescue's vet receipts, they'd usually be paying a lot more than the adoption fee.

I'll try to illustrate the difference in vet care between shelters and rescues (using actual pricing from my area -- if you are in certain other areas of the country, pricing would be vastly higher). I've pulled enough dogs from shelters to know exactly what they do in my area: the "good" shelters that do some vetting charge adopters $80-100 for a speutered, vaccinated, microchipped dog. That isn't the same as a fully vetted dog. Here's the reality of an $80 fresh-from-shelter adoption in my area:

1. You go home with a dog freshly spayed (without pain meds) to do the post-surgery recovery yourself. If there's a complication (e.g, saroma), you are on your own. That newly adopted dog also can't be bathed for 10 days because of the incision (but it will stink to high heaven, as it wasn't bathed in the shelter before surgery).

2. The shelter is out of flea treatment products, so you go home with a dog that hasn't been flea-treated (and the fleas are jumping off in your car). I have to keep Capstar in my purse when I'm going to pull a shelter dog in the summer -- we give it to the dog as soon as I get there and then go do paper work to give it time to work. (Capstar costs $5/dose -- we're now at $85.)

3. Your dog will only have had one set of shots (at most), so you'll need to pay for an adult 5-1 booster within 2 weeks. Shots are typically $20 if you get a good price, so add that to your total. (We're now at $105. Add in a wellness exam at your vet for $35, and you're at $140.)

3. The shelter will likely not have done a fecal test (and 90% of the dogs we pull have worms--probably acquired from the shelter). If you are like most people, you probably won't expect it or know that there's a problem until the runny poop gets really bad. By then, the whipworms or hookworms might already have gotten into your backyard soil where your dog has been pooping. Now those worms can infect any other dog that walks on that soil. Oh--and you won't ever be able to walk outside barefoot this summer because hooks can infect people through the soles of the feet too! (The fecal test at your vet will likely cost $20 plus $30 for Drontal Plus to deworm, if you do it in the same trip as the wellness exam and don't incur a second exam fee. We're now at $195.)

4. That healthy-looking shelter dog will likely break with kennel cough within about a week, and you'll be on the hook for treating that too. The strain going around my area now is nasty, and very contagious. It's turned into pneumonia in a few dogs, according to my vet. Assuming you don't end up with pneumonia and treat it promptly, the drug of choice for KC in my area is Doxycycline, which is no longer cheap. (That hits after your wellness exam, so you need to go pay for another vet visit. You now pay another $35 exam fee plus at least $20 for meds, and that's if your vet gives them to you at cost. $55 more brings us up to $250).

5. At some point the dog starts rubbing its ears and when you go to clean them, black gunk comes out. Back to the vet to treat an ear infection. You now have to clean the ears daily and treat twice daily with ointment, which your new dog loathes. (There's another $35 fee for that visit, plus $20 for antibiotic ear ointment. Now we're at $305.)

The rescue dog that costs $250? All that stuff was already dealt with by the rescue's vet and the foster volunteer. You don't have to keep taking time off work to get to the vet, or struggle to get a newly adopted dog to take pills or mess with painful ears. The foster home did all that for you. You get to enjoy a healthy dog, fully recovered from surgery, clean, up-to-date and ready to enjoy, thanks to a few weeks in foster care.

All this assumes the rescue is a good one that is actually doing full vetting and not just flipping dogs, of course.

llombardo 05-24-2014 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magwart (Post 5559594)
I'm *all* for saving shelter dogs. There's a big, big difference in the quality of vet care they receive compared to rescue though--expect significant follow-up vet bills post-adoption with a shelter dog. A $250 rescue adoption fee is a good deal if the rescue fully vets the dogs.

I know a lot of people balk at rescue adoption fees, so I want to use this as an opportunity to try to lay out where they come from. It's usually not a rescue being greedy.

Add up the cost to full vet a healthy dog (speuter, two sets of shots, rabies, microchip w/ activation, fecal test, and HW test, flea and HW prevention, and deworming, as that's almost always needed). Then realize hardly any dogs need just that basic stuff. It costs my rescue $150-200 to fully vet a dog, and I'm in a very cheap area with vets who give us great pricing--and that's assuming no pull fee. At $200, we barely break even on a healthy dog.

Most of them aren't healthy when we get them, either. Most of them need lots of additional care. I'm sitting on vet bills close to $1,000 for a single dog with major skin infection that was treatable, but expensive. HW treatment for another one this week was just $400 (not including the cost of Doxy, which runs about $100). If we waived the actual adoption fee and instead asked adopters to reimburse the rescue's vet receipts, they'd usually be paying a lot more than the adoption fee.

I'll try to illustrate the difference in vet care between shelters and rescues (using actual pricing from my area -- if you are in certain other areas of the country, pricing would be vastly higher). I've pulled enough dogs from shelters to know exactly what they do in my area: the "good" shelters that do some vetting charge adopters $80-100 for a speutered, vaccinated, microchipped dog. That isn't the same as a fully vetted dog. Here's the reality of an $80 fresh-from-shelter adoption in my area:

1. You go home with a dog freshly spayed (without pain meds) to do the post-surgery recovery yourself. If there's a complication (e.g, saroma), you are on your own. That newly adopted dog also can't be bathed for 10 days because of the incision (but it will stink to high heaven, as it wasn't bathed in the shelter before surgery).

2. The shelter is out of flea treatment products, so you go home with a dog that hasn't been flea-treated (and the fleas are jumping off in your car). I have to keep Capstar in my purse when I'm going to pull a shelter dog in the summer -- we give it to the dog as soon as I get there and then go do paper work to give it time to work. (Capstar costs $5/dose -- we're now at $85.)

3. Your dog will only have had one set of shots (at most), so you'll need to pay for an adult 5-1 booster within 2 weeks. Shots are typically $20 if you get a good price, so add that to your total. (We're now at $105. Add in a wellness exam at your vet for $35, and you're at $140.)

3. The shelter will likely not have done a fecal test (and 90% of the dogs we pull have worms--probably acquired from the shelter). If you are like most people, you probably won't expect it or know that there's a problem until the runny poop gets really bad. By then, the whipworms or hookworms might already have gotten into your backyard soil where your dog has been pooping. Now those worms can infect any other dog that walks on that soil. Oh--and you won't ever be able to walk outside barefoot this summer because hooks can infect people through the soles of the feet too! (The fecal test at your vet will likely cost $20 plus $30 for Drontal Plus to deworm, if you do it in the same trip as the wellness exam and don't incur a second exam fee. We're now at $195.)

4. That healthy-looking shelter dog will likely break with kennel cough within about a week, and you'll be on the hook for treating that too. The strain going around my area now is nasty, and very contagious. It's turned into pneumonia in a few dogs, according to my vet. Assuming you don't end up with pneumonia and treat it promptly, the drug of choice for KC in my area is Doxycycline, which is no longer cheap. (That hits after your wellness exam, so you need to go pay for another vet visit. You now pay another $35 exam fee plus at least $20 for meds, and that's if your vet gives them to you at cost. $55 more brings us up to $250).

5. At some point the dog starts rubbing its ears and when you go to clean them, black gunk comes out. Back to the vet to treat an ear infection. You now have to clean the ears daily and treat twice daily with ointment, which your new dog loathes. (There's another $35 fee for that visit, plus $20 for antibiotic ear ointment. Now we're at $305.)

The rescue dog that costs $250? All that stuff was already dealt with by the rescue's vet and the foster volunteer. You don't have to keep taking time off work to get to the vet, or struggle to get a newly adopted dog to take pills or mess with painful ears. The foster home did all that for you. You get to enjoy a healthy dog, fully recovered from surgery, clean, up-to-date and ready to enjoy, thanks to a few weeks in foster care.

All this assumes the rescue is a good one that is actually doing full vetting and not just flipping dogs, of course.

It is definitely the areas. I'll use the shelter that two of mine came from. My oldest female was $85.00. She was in the "sick" room when I found her, recovering from surgery. She had 10 staples in her leg, I just recently learned that it was her ACL. They did the surgery. She came to me fixed, with all shots, dewormed, microchipped, leash, collar, a bag of food. I paid $99.00 for Midnite 7 years later at the same shelter. He also was fixed, microchipped, shots, food(this time I donated that back to the shelter). Midnite did have kennel cough, but they paid for the treatment. His ears were dirty and one was slightly infected, they covered the cost of that to.They charged a reduced rate for HW testing and HW medication was regular price and optional. You get to bring the dog back to them for a vet check within 10 days and anything that is wrong with them is covered. Rescues in my area come with basically the same thing and the normal fees are $250.00. They do not do any heartworm testing, because its not in the budget and they are hoping that the dogs get forever homes quick enough for the owner to do so. However, the foster family can do it on their own. The main difference between a shelter dog and rescue dog is the IMMEDIATE need. Once the rescue pulls the dog from a shelter it is generally safe and in a nice foster home. A shelter dog in the shelter is never safe. If a rescue is pulling a dog from the shelter and paying a pull fee(Is that fee different from the adoption fee?), if it is different they might as well pay the actual adoption fee and get everything included for a much lower cost. At least they don't have to pay for the fixing or shots. That kinda confuses me to, because it doesn't make since for a dog to get pulled from a shelter then get vetted through the rescue, that should have happened at the shelter, right:confused:

misslesleedavis1 05-24-2014 09:40 AM

Rescue here charges 350.00 to 400.00 you get a dog that is fully vetted, chipped and fixed. Its not a bad deal. I am not sure what is cost to adopt from shelter, they come fully vetted here too, maybe 300.00 ?
My big red flag is rescues that dont help locally. What makes a dog from Georgia more special then a dog from toronto? Nothing at all. Plus alot of dogs they get from the south comes with HW which costs more money,

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shepherdmom 05-24-2014 10:36 AM

I don't see taking dogs from outside the area as a huge red flag.

The rescue I help takes dogs from outside the area although we do take them local as well.

They will often take damaged dogs, hording situations etc..

They are not making a profit, the adoption fee is $100. (my shelter dogs cost more than that)
Just the spay/neuter costs, shots, and chip cost the rescue more than they make on the adoption fee.

They keep it small so they can get the dogs the help they need and match them with the right people.


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