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sudden puppy aggression?

4K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  thenewshepherd 
#1 ·
hey, first time dog owner so we took everything really seriously with AJ. he was never allowed on furniture or jumping on anything or biting too hard even when he attacks. yup, that's the problem. he gets a long walk every morning and at least three hours of play (half hour sessions with obedience breaks) with a flirtpole mostly, he loves it and is always well spent once we're done. he has a fixed routine and nothing has changed recently except that, in the middle of play/as soon as we give him permission to go the yard/near his bed/(more recently) on a walk, he'll run in large circles, if he can, and then bow, and bite my hands or jump up and try to bite my arms or my wrist and won't let go. he doesn't growl and rarely barks when this happens. we tried to pinpoint the cause but every situation was different, sometimes, we know a second before he does anything because he looks are us with eyes that hint he;s going to lunge but he doesn't do that every time either. we aren't forcing/moving/touching/taking anything away from him when he does this and in normal conditions, he understands 'No.' he has no food aggression or possessiveness of his toys which he readily drops when we tell him play time is over. we're taking him to a vet to rule out any medical condition that could cause this since he's 9 months old and he started it all in the last month alone.
we live a little far away from the main city (an hour drive) and there aren't many dog owners where we live. we love AJ and want to help him overcome whatever is causing this problem. could it be something we're doing? does anyone have any advice about what specifically to ask the vet to look for? what training methods other than timeouts and positive reinforcement we can use? any help is greatly appreciated!

(baby picture of AJ! :p)
 
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#2 ·
3 hours a day with a flirt pole sounds like wayyyyy too much stimulation in my opinion. It just sounds like your dog is overstimulated and would benefit from more breaks (Ie - forced settle time in a crate) or less flirt pole time and more obedience time.

You mentioned a bow before the LOOK, and oh boy I know that look lol, i bet if you crated him he'd pass out . Just to me from your description this doesn't sound like aggression at all.
 
#3 ·
i guess we just don't know what to call it. he doesn't tuck his tail in or show dominance and the whites of his eyes don't show anymore than they normally do. but he still bites, jumps on my back if i'm not looking and it's just scary (especially for my mom!).
thank you so much for your help!
 
#5 ·
he is not neutered and because of (religious) reasons, my parents and sisters are strictly against it, i tried bringing it up but they refuse it on all grounds. there are stray dogs in EVERY neighbourhood for several miles in every direction. letting him off leash in an area that isn't enclosed isn't something we want to do and there aren't many places here that allow dogs AT ALL. the most you can do it walk around early morning because when people are out they scold and tell all dog owners to keep their "mutts" off of sidewalks. we take him to walk in different places and new locations as often as we can (four or five times a week). we recently changed toys.

oh and THANK YOU so much for the help, mego, we just had a few calmer and slower training sessions and shorter play times and it worked!
 
#9 ·
Oh, i wasn't saying to neuter. I choose not to neuter. I was just curious.
Where are you located? Can you drive out to a more rural area? Have you looked into working on crate games? Dogs need timeouts too. Not for being naughty. But to help them calm.
 
#6 ·
what you are experiencing is not aggression .

quote " he'll run in large circles, if he can, and then bow, and bite my hands or jump up and try to bite my arms or my wrist and won't let go. he doesn't growl and rarely barks when this happens."

the dog is PLAYING . He would have the same gestures to initiate play with another dog.

you need to change the relationship with the dog . So far his experience with you has been all
about play and fun .

quote "he gets a long walk every morning and at least three hours of play (half hour sessions with obedience breaks) with a flirtpole mostly, he loves it and is always well spent"

turn it around half hour obedience with 5 minutes of release and play breaks. That way he will give you obedience for the privilege of playing . That is his reward .

I picture the relationship like two pre-teen boys at their first sleep-over at a friends . Well the party never stops .
When things quieten down one of them will whack the other one with a pillow to get things started again , until all energy is zapped and they fall down out of exhaustion to sleep.

If you need to go to the vet for any other reason then go, but I sure wouldn't go for this.

Put the flirt pole away. Have your rules in the house. Go for one walk with no "play" . Make that walk short - not hours or miles long .

Join a training class which will give you the obedience and control so that you can do other activities which are fun such as agility or flyball.

Good training is fun ! It does not have to be like a regimental boot camp.
 
#8 ·
THANK YOU ALL SO INCREDIBLY MUCH!
i was getting really tired of everyone telling me he was just plain misbehaved!
yeah. we have to take him to make sure his calcium supplement doesn't need increasing, so a trip to the vet with less to worry about.
i'd send all of you chocolates if it was possible.
enjoy a picture of our little guy posing for a picture instead (ignore the mess!)?

also, that example of preteen boys put it into perspective!
LAST QUESTION:
should we just switch the routine from 80% play and 20% work to 90% work and 10% play from tomorrow onwards (it's past 11pm.) or should we do it gradually?
 
#10 ·
i don't know what you mean by 'crate games'... sorry, could you elaborate a bit more?
he caught a bad fungal infection when he was at the rescue (we alerted the rescue that other dogs should be checked so all was well) and had to be quarantined, doctor's orders, so he's not a fan of being caged in any sense of the word. still, we got him one and he's taken to it nicely.
we have leash laws and an ever present fear (borderline hatred in some) of dogs in our part of the country and that pretty self explanatory about all the things we wish to but can't do with him. we are surrounded by farms (we live in the very outskirts of the capital and lots of empty plots, farms and cattle feeding grounds are around) but those farms/grounds have their own dogs or human guards and the farmers are the suspicious sort because of the locals not paying a tax for the building of the road that connects the farms to one another and to other houses. it's a long winding tale cut short by saying, no one will allow a dog that's not theirs to so much as approach them much less use their property. imagine how we got our dog to sit and behave when someone walked by when people around are like this!
 
#14 ·
he had a tremor in his left paw that was scaring us so when we showed him the vet suggested it and since he hasn't had a tremor and we give him the bare minimum so nothing is excessive and checked with our vet about it. the tremor is back and we wanted to discuss whether to increase the dosage or not
 
#15 ·
when he exhibits the behaviour, and is still in the running phase before biting, how do i react to it. today, i tried just looking uninterested and not moving too quickly as he ran like was fitted with duracell batteries and it proved an effective way of not getting bitten but he kept at the running till he was done with the rounds. how can we stop him from doing that and discourage the behaviour?

also, if we don't give him the run around on a flirtpole in the later half of the day, how do we expend his physical and mental energy that is bound to build up when we're at school? he knows the basics, sit, wait (we don't use the word stay), say hi, lie down, GET down, go up (stairs), bark, find it, catch etc
going to a puppy class would be WONDERFUL but the only training centres are just too far away to walk and even if the class is short, because of the car's availability and my parents' (and driver's) disapproval of letting the dog in the car for anything beyond necessary trips, it'll be yet another argument with my family about the dog's care and arguing with my mom is something i really rather not do since she had to overcome an intense fear of dogs that manifested itself for nearly 45 years without outside help to let me keep this dog.
personal trainers are expensive and my dad personally isn't very convinced by the idea of another person helping with AJ, plus none are in our town which means they'll have to drive out here from the city which is an inconvenience we might have to pay for a 45 min or more drive depending on where they are or they can simply refuse us.
 
#16 ·
The running is a good thing.What you don't want is to get him super excited with the flirt pole.After he gets the "zoomies" out of his system is the time for a structured walk and obedience practice.At home in the yard practice obedience for ten minutes or so.Release him to run or play ball for two minutes as a reward.80% 20% is a good ratio.
 
#17 ·
we let him run his rounds but he starts to jump up, even if we say 'get down' which he listens to even on walks (he jumps up on piled bricks or rocks on the way) or in distraction. he also bites. admittedly it's gentle (relatively) but it's something we don't want him to get used to. when we give an easy correction, a little tension on the drag lead and 'sit' and he stops, enjoys the praise and petting but he doesn't listen to either command at this time.
help is greatly appreciated!

ps.
we've managed to earn a massive response from him. he's still excited about 15 minute training sessions (new tricks and tasty treats!) and though we've minimized flirtpole for him, we make sure that every few seconds in to the chase we hold the lure or attached toy in our own hands and give him two to four rapid fire commands which he has to perform before the game can continue.
thank you all very much!
 
#18 ·
i spoke too soon. today we were in the yard for the last session before bedtime when after training, we were starting play and he began to jump and bite. we put him in timeout quickly, came back to him after 10, 15, 20, 30 seconds and he seemed more agitated each time. he jumped and barked before i reached him. the eleventh time it was getting late so i reached for his lead as he bit my hands and told him to sit. he calmed down and laid at my feet and kept gently mouthing my hands and biting at his own paws. once he settled we tried to start play but he pounced again.
 
#19 ·
Don't despair!Sounds like an overtired revved up puppy.Similar to a toddler that gets too wound up to settle at bedtime.No playing before bedtime would be best.Maybe give him something to chew,something to help him wind down for the evening(think bath and story time for kids).Then last potty break and crate:)
 
#20 ·
help! again!

at night we gave him a (safe) bone to chew and it worked in calming him down! thanks!
this morning, my dupatta, a shawl we wear before leaving the house, got blown into the mud so i had to ask my mother for another one. she took too long and he went on the floor. after, he saw the new dupatta and started pouncing, and biting. i turned my back on him and he began to try and rip the shirt fabric and my back apart. he left nasty swellings and a forming bruise. after he stopped and was calm for around five minutes, we went for our walk. i kept an eye on him but the second i stopped looking at him, he spun and swung me around as though he was chasing something but nothing was there and then he diverted his piqued interest on to my arms and face. i'm 5'1 so you can imagine it's not easy to defend yourself against a dog that;s 4'8 when standing on his hind legs. we brought him in and put him in a timeout. we gave him something small to eat so he wouldn't have an empty stomach and tried obedience for around seven minutes. he barked at me for nearly two minutes. i decided to just walk in front of the house since he didn't get to walk at all and i didn't feel too safe letting him off leash for play, so, i took him but three steps in to the walk he lost it again. and i had to drag him in while he chewed by finger to shreds. in his 'den' a big outdoor kennel, he started barking at me for no apparent reason. when he quieted down i fed him and he took large sips of water, even though water was out in the yard as well if he was thirsty.
what is it that we're doing wrong? my aunt scared my mother with 'dogs will kill and eat their owners because they are wild' crap and i'm worried about whether or not she'll get rid of him because of this.
 
#22 ·
Dogs as a "general rule" don't kill and eat there owners?? Not GSD's in any case, most likely tyou have family hanging out with to many "Molosser' owners. :)

By and large everything you need to know to is here:


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8006017-post7.html

Welcome aboard.
THAT'S WHAT I TOLD MY MOM! but she was scared of dogs before we got AJ and her sister spooked her out and then AJ keeps jumping and biting so i guess it got to her.

welcome i feel, indeed!
 
#23 ·
his jumping and nipping is now almost exclusively happening between 5:15 am to 6:00 am and 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm. provided i don't get jumped by one of parents' 'just deal with him while this happens' situations, the rest of the day he's an energetic, loving, playful and obedient laid back dog. i know he's most active during the time around dawn and dusk. which is why we walk him around dawn but he doesn't let us leave the house because once he's out on or off leash after getting permission to leave, he'll jump up and snap in the air, bite and bare his front teeth with his mouth open and in a bow. if we manage to get him out of the house in a behaved manner despite this, it's a gamble. either he'll lose it at any instance or he'll be a perfect gentledog and wait till we get home to unleash all ****, or he'll save it for evening, or it'll disappear all together.
the only negative thing we do to him all day is having to flip him over when he's nipping and jumping to get a hold of his leash, dragging him to timeouts while he chews up my arms, a leash jerk when he misbehaves on a walk or acts out on my sister or holding his muzzle closed if younger children are around. should we introduce negative reinforcement like shake cans or something of the sort? how should we use it effectively?
 
#25 ·
My pup has moments when he gets wound up too, and becomes a land shark. He'll go days or a week and I think he is growing out of it, but then he'll flip again. It is a bit disconcerting, because I sure wouldn't want him doing this to a stranger.

What I do is disengage, turn my back, and get away. If he learns that bad behavior means he loses all attention, that calms him down. If you tussle with him, he thinks you are playing.

If you can't get away, I've found a loud ferocious growl gets his attention better than a No, though I follow it with a No. He'll usually disengage with that and sit back wide eyed. I figure it is what his mom would have done.

The land shark phase is disconcerting, but it doesn't mean you will have a vicious aggressive dog, it means your pup is trying to play with you, as if you were a littermate.
 
#26 ·
it's comforting to know AJ isn't the only little shark out there but maybe he's a bit tougher.

we used to try the growl and it would work at distracting him for a split second before we could pull out a treat, hold it out of his reach and wait till he got what he was supposed to do. instantly he'd sit and get half the treat, and then lie down to get another half and flip on his side to get a full treat. we'd keep him in lie down like that for a while before he calmed down and we could continue but it stopped working one day and hasn't worked since. :frown2:
we tried the timeout approach as well but in the end, it made him more nippy than before so we dropped the idea
 
#27 ·
in the last few days the problem came back.

we think it might be the weather? it's changing and at least once a week the weather becomes windy and stormy even if it doesn't rain. there's construction going on everywhere so lots of dust rises and the sky darkens and there might be thunder, it might even drizzle. when it actual rains we have a go on the stairs.

AJ stays sane as long as he's crated. as soon as he's allowed out, for exercise or to eliminate he starts cutting those circles and eventually trying to nip me unless i can get a hold of his drag lead and give the leash command for a sit. and then crate him till he calms down. then let him out while holding his leash and redirecting his energy to the flirtpole. now we onlky use it for seven minutes max mixed with obedience commands like wait, say hi, lie down, look at me, not for you, etc. and only when he's being too rowdy to interest him in another game.

could it be the weather or something else? if it is the weather, what do we do to make it easier on him?
 
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