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Old 08-22-2014, 09:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default VAGRANT behavior in 5 to 6 month gsd pup

I read an article stating 7 stages of development of a gsd from pup to adult dog. There it was stated that during five to six months gsd pups undergo hormonal changes, and can exhibit lack of desire to please, ignore commands which it has learned or try to establish dominance.

My Duke turned 5 month yesterday, and i have not seen any such changes in him until today.

My bungalow is close to the main road, usually Duke never goes to the road, and even if he goes near the road on call returns quickly. To day while playing in the afternoon he suddenly went to the road and kept walking away. He did not return on several recalls. He was nearly run over by a vehicle. The driver was careful.

Earlier I had no such problem. We had developed such good recall that i could trust him totally off leash. Now is it the symptom of adolescence changes taking place or is it just one accident better to ignore?

Has anyone observed temporary vagrant phase during 5 to six months in their gsd pups?

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Santanu
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I would not excuse blown recalls for phases. If he blew off the recall, I'd simply go back and proof his recall. Work on it more. I need to do the same with my young dog. Even if there are such thing as these phases, it doesn't mean my dog is excused from my recalls.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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My Linus is 5.5 months old and he is in this phase. I have not heard it called a Vagrant phase before, however.

You are NOT alone. Here is one of many threads on this topic.

Butt head.

I've stepped up obedience work but he is still backsliding a little on some things like attacking the couch. He is also teething now. Last night and this morning were particularly bad. He's cutting a new molar tooth and, just like a human toddler, he is cranky from the teething pain and acting up.

I have pretty solid recall on Linus and he does well off leash but I only let him off the leash in very safe areas (e.g. with a fence or other barrier or really far from anything like a road). I politely suggest you reconsider letting him off so near a road. He's just shown you that he is not to be trusted. It would be a tragedy to see him run down.

Best of luck,

Michael
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Honestly I agree with Lies, I don't excuse bad behaviour regardless of age. Have him earn that privilege back and show him that disobeying gets those privileges revoked without fail.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I would not excuse blown recalls for phases. If he blew off the recall, I'd simply go back and proof his recall. Work on it more. I need to do the same with my young dog. Even if there are such thing as these phases, it doesn't mean my dog is excused from my recalls.
I completely agree and this is why I am stepping up OB during this phase. Fortunately, Linus' recall is still solid. But I still train it every day to make sure it stays solid. Recall is lifesaver and it MUST be solid--no excuses.

One other thing: if he blows you off for a recall put a long line on him so you can enforce the command. Seems like you don't have a fence so you may wish to consider a long line every time you let him out.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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OP, the big problem you're going to have is that if you call him more than once, you're actually teaching him to ignore you. I'd also suggest having him on a long line so that he has no choice but to recall, after calling the one and only time.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ace is starting to be a rebel too.... he bark at me and my GF and refuse to return the ball when we play fetch lately
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot guys,
This forum is really great.

regards
Santanu
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ya know what. I think sometimes people expect (and get) so much so fast with a youngster, that they are surprised when the pup acts like a pup and acts not quite so polished as you thought he was.

Letting the puppy into a situation where he might get hit by cars at his age because his training is that perfected, I dunno, I think it is premature.

On the other hand, I let pups at 8 weeks old run from the kennel to my car in an area that is not fenced. And from the car to my house, or to the kennel. They always come. I do not command them to come. I just call them and they come.

It's funny my trainer stopped by as she was in the neighborhood and saw I had the puppies out front. And in the course of them being there I had let some of them out, or was getting them back in their area, and the one went running. They were worried, and I said, "she won't go anywhere." And then I called, "Nellie!" and she came right to me, and I lifted her into her area. They seemed impressed at her coming, but she's been coming to me since she was weaned. I bring the food. I have toys. They like me.

I think they have good days and bad days. There may be something they haven't encountered before, and they want to check it out. But I never think a 5 month old pup is trained. Oh they will come, or I will go the other way, make myself more exciting, I am not frightened when they are loose in my yard. But trained? No way. I tend to let mine be puppies longer than other people. I take them to classes, yeah, but I am not looking for the same goals at the end of six weeks.

Training is a journey, and I am happy to enjoy the trip. I don't mind plodding along in the slow lane, or hanging out behind an Amish buggy for a while. When it does count, I will be able to take any one of the critters out and do whatever I want them to do, even if they are not in active training for months, because once my dogs have their foundation down, it's like riding a bicycle, they have it.

Moofie just finished his first obedience class. He doesn't stay well, his sits are good but crooked and we haven't done much with recall, but his come fronts are good. His heeling is about right for his age. His downs are sloppy but I don't have to touch him. He is 4.5 months old, and I am perfectly happy with where he is. He likes the tunnel.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade View Post
Honestly I agree with Lies, I don't excuse bad behaviour regardless of age. Have him earn that privilege back and show him that disobeying gets those privileges revoked without fail.
Right, because a 5 month old pup recognizes that they almost died in the road yesterday so now they have a long line on. Whatever.

I would take away the privileges or rather remove the ability of the young dog to kill himself because he nearly killed himself. And when I feel confident again that the dog has it down 100%, I will wait even longer before letting the dog be in such a position. But not because the dog realizes it did wrong and now he needs to earn his privileges back again. More, because maybe I jumped the gun with what I thought the pup was capable of, and I don't want to do something that I will regret forever.
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