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Old 03-31-2014, 12:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Aggression after walks

I'm hoping maybe some trainers out there with lots of experience might have an answer. Jake is now 8 1/2 months. We just went on our first fairly long walk since his pano. We come home and as soon as we get in the house he becomes uncontrollably aggressive with the other dogs ( all smaller than him), and just charges them and starts instigating fights with them. Like he's meeting a strange dog that he totally hates. I'm not understanding this behavior.

Obviously I don't have the upper hand because he ignores my commands and his adrenalines raging and he completely looses his mind. Oh it doesn't matter that he's still on the leash I might add. Tonight the cattle dog was out back when we came home. I went to take Jake out back, she wanted to come in so they were close to each other, he just attacked her!

Got her in the house and kept him out with me til he calmed down, sat and waited by the open door and was able to focus on me. We went in, let him off the leash, he's around the other dogs like nothing ever happened. He's behaved this way before, but not this aggressively.

I'm thinking maybe put him in a down when we come in til he's completely calm? Or maybe there's a better way. And where's this all coming from? Besides the fact he's not respecting me. Maybe this is a dominance issue, letting the the other dogs know he's home? Maybe back to basics? I did pretty much give him a month 1/2 off from most training because of pano. Probably shouldn't have, he just seemed so uncomfortable. Time to get out the prong collar? Any ideas?
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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No prong! That is exactly the wrong tool to use as a rookie! It can put drive into a dog not take it out! And if as you say he does not respect you he could very well "come up the leash on you" if you use a prong badly on him! Right now your best bet is to manage him, keep him away from the other dogs put a drag leash on him and or a muzzle. Keep the other dogs safe have him checked again to see if there is something medically wrong with him.

https://suite101.com/a/how-to-avoid-...eholds-a183736
Two or More Dogs

Your dog has to respect you as a leader for any training/leadership to work
Leerburg Dog Training | The Groundwork to Establishing Pack Structure with Adult Dogs
http://leerburg.com/dominac2.htm
Good info here about dog aggression in general
Leerburg | My dog is dog aggressive. What can I do about this aggression?

It sounds like you most likely need to find a competent qualified trainer, I had this problem myself with my GSD he had no problem with me running the ship but he wanted to run the crew!

Last edited by Chip18; 03-31-2014 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Definitely do everything Chip18 has posted. Another thing to try is to do a good training session when you get home, before you get in the house or come in contact with your other dogs. It'll help him brush up on his behaviors since he's been off for a while as well as help tire him out mentally. I run into the problem a lot where owners walk their dogs and the walk gets them fired up so when they get home, they don't actually settle. In my experience, a walk followed immediately by a training session helps even out my dogs and take the edge off the post-walk excitement. Obviously not something that's going to solve the problem, but something that could help in the meantime.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Lack of exercise in combination with the prong collar, most likely, are responsible for your dog agressiveness. Particularly, if you say he goes through intensive training. Prong should never be used for training, only for correction of already learned commands your dog isn't perfect with, and even though, you should use two collars - both, prong and flat one, switching from mainly used flat onto prong in a way that your dog doesn't notice it. Prong should never be used on nervous or potentially agressive dogs, as it affects nervous system. If your dog doesn't heel properly - it means that you, as a handler is not much fan for him, some pee on a tree is more interesting. You have a problem of your dog not paying attention to you on walks, if he pulls and doesn't listen. I suggest you to post it as a separate question on this site.
Back to your question with other dogs. Young intact male, full of energy and thursty to explore life, abyss of luring smells, spring odours and young females walking somewhere around, lots of living objects to prey on, and instincts that rip him apart. He is thursty for life. Instead of chasing the ball and tracking 3-4 miles daily, visiting new places and playing intellectual games - you provided him a boring obedience training on a prong collar, when he cannot even pull closer to that tree. Does he run freely? For how long? How much of exercise you provide? If you don't, it leads to extreme frustration, he simply uses your other dogs as scapegoats to to relieve himself from it.
I suggest you to get non-pull harness, a long 7 metre line, and walk him only using that, so, he can go wherever he wants to. Go regularly, as often as you can, somewhere in the woods for 2-3 hour walks with a ball. And do your obedience training during those walks as short sessions. Without any prong collars. In fact, to make your dog obedient you don't need any tools.
You wouldn't solve the problem by separating him from other dogs, absolutely opposite - he might understand it as something special and start looking for a moment to bite. Try to distract him as much as you can, call him to yourself, run away so he would follow you, create a new stereotype for him on your return, like feeding and looking for toys around the house, etc.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
You wouldn't solve the problem by separating him from other dogs, absolutely opposite - he might understand it as something special and start looking for a moment to bite. Try to distract him as much as you can, call him to yourself, run away so he would follow you, create a new stereotype for him on your return, like feeding and looking for toys around the house, etc.
Separating and keeping the other dog save is a fine distinction! I'm not sure how many "mistakes" a cattle dog can stand up to??

Easily wind up wit two dogs with "issues" instead of one!

Note rank drive below:

(Elements of Temperament, by Joy Tiz )
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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While he was recuperating did you really give him all that free time to run the show? Bully the other dogs, charge through doorways, etc? If so, then yes back to basics is probably the best idea. I think a long down after a walk is a good idea too, as long as that's a reasonable expectation and it's not going to add more conflict. Otherwise, maybe a crated nap would work better.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Easily wind up wit two dogs with "issues" instead of one!
Then, please, instruct, what to do later, say, at least, how to bring them together, or, separate them forever? IMHO, if the dog is exhausted after vigorous physical exercise, it is very unlikely he would like to spend his energy attacking other dogs. And, if he does, it is much easier to control the dog who is emotionally and physically drained. "Obedient GSD is a tired GSD". I would add - and "good tempered GSD".
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for the input and advice. Yes I agree with "an obedient GSD is a tired GSD", but that can't always be the case. Jake is my 4th GSD, in a span of about 26 years. So I'm not new to the breed or the temperaments or behaviors. I have a prong, but I don't use it on Jake. Hes DDR/czech lines with very high drives. He's pretty good on walks except for those few incidents, like the deer in front of us yesturday. But after they shot into the woods. I let Jake track and explore too. Not Nearly long enough though. The other time he pulled yesturday was at a fenced dog. We just walked through it. These things (pulling when excited) have to be addressed I know. But the coming unglued behavior when we get home is really what's got me stumped. Although thinking back, the dog behind the fence that had Jake so riled up wasn't very far from here. I'm sure his adrenaline was still raging when we got home. I think Sechattin might have something there with a short training session before we come in. But David, I think you are right also. He needs to expend more energy on his walks/outings. Blanketback, no when he was down I didn't let him run the show. He still had to earn his treats. He still had to follow the rules . He's not completely over pano, but obviously he's way ready to get out and do things. Separating the dogs shouldn't have to happen. I've just got to change Jake's mindset or figure out what's causing it. Thanks again everyone for your help. Really appreciate your ideas and other options I can try.

Teresa
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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well this won't make me popular with the already posted, but here goes.

I wouldn't put up with this poop He LIVES with these dogs, they aren't strangers, if he gets along fine with them otherwise, there's no reason for him to be a butt head after a walk.

I agree with getting him to calm down before you re enter the house, but I've also done what others here have suggested not to, and mine is czech/ddr with High ENERGY, .. She used to come in the house after being somewhere with me, start a "in your face barking fest" with the other dogs, no attacking, but trying to get a reaction out of them...Prong collar on leash, correction, doesn't do it anymore

I don't baby my dogs, I don't have dogs who's feelings get hurt when they get a correction, they get one, they are over it, they move on. I might add I don't 'beat' my dogs either))
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
Then, please, instruct, what to do later, say, at least, how to bring them together, or, separate them forever? IMHO, if the dog is exhausted after vigorous physical exercise, it is very unlikely he would like to spend his energy attacking other dogs. And, if he does, it is much easier to control the dog who is emotionally and physically drained. "Obedient GSD is a tired GSD". I would add - and "good tempered GSD".
I only mildly disagree, I said keep them safe. "I think they are OK??" Is'nt going to cut it. A drag leash and keeping them from getting in striking distance is the best insurance.

If the other dog keeps getting attacked while the OP is in the learning curve, the problem gets worse and worse.

But hey if "exercise fails" emergency back up plan is here:
Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

Been there done that got the stitches!

What you can do when your dogs respect you and what you can do when they don't are quite different.

Last edited by Chip18; 03-31-2014 at 04:30 PM.
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