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lots of socialization threads lately have led me to a question about my new pup.

4K views 52 replies 12 participants last post by  shepherdmom 
#1 ·
My new boy is from rescue. He is not from a good breeder. His genetics are pretty well unknown. I do know, that I choose him because I didn't think he would be a good fit for a family with kids. He is fearful. We got him at 12 weeks and have spent the last 4 weeks getting him used to my dogs and my husband. He would bark and growl when hubby came home from work. Now he is starting to head for treats, progress right? Last week he got his 16 weeks shots so I can take him out and socialize. How can I best do this without traumatizing him? I took him to the vet yesterday for so socialization but he was pretty scared. I let him hide under my chair and just watch. vet tech and girls from reception gave him treats. He doesn't even like the car ride. I took him for a short ride with my car loving dog Ivan and he just sat huddled on floor. I realize he may never be social and I don't really care about a social dog. I just want to help him become less fearful of things. It will be a long slow process, I'm sure. Any suggestions?
 
#2 ·
Our rescue pup was like this when we first got him... Cowered at the vets, and when I introduced him to our trainer. Barked at everyone on walks.

I introduced him to new things slowly, and repeatedly. His first walk at the park was stressful for him. But I took him again and again, and now he's great. Petsmart was the same thing... We just praised him a ton, did not coddle him or pet him when he was afraid, worked very hard at the "leave it" and "look" commands and over a few months he was greatly improved. He can go to any park, any store, the vets, etc. with no issues, and he has lots of fun. I won't let people or dogs approach him if he's acting nervous, and I keep him in a stay when people come over until he relaxes. Then he can greet the guest and get some treats. I try to make sure he knows it's my job to handle things, not his.

I don't believe his is naturally a very fearful dog, but his confidence needed a lot of help - occasionally a certain person or dog will make him nervous, but overall he's gotten a lot better. Hope this helps!


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#3 · (Edited)
going to the vet and having over zealous young lady vet techs converge on him, already trying to minimize his presence , and plying him with treats.
first of all you treat below the threshold , not on top or over because then you inadvertently rewarding the wrong place in his mind.
you should care about a social dog because that is what makes him safe and confident in a variety of environments. It is not always about the initial response , but the recovery and resilience .

You don't want him inhibited . Being social does not mean being a social butterfly, all fellows well met, heart on sleeve dog . That is contrary to what a good GSD should be.

I wouldn't go to the petsmarty and I wouldn't go to the dog park . He does not need to get personal with dogs met on walks. Just keep on going. He has your Ivan as a dog friend.
On that note I would not have them so together all the time that the young dog annoys Ivan , and that the young dog becomes too dependant on Ivan.
Each is an individual.

You don't need to flood the dog with experience , moving along as if crossing off items from a check list .

One quiet excursion , pleasant , something that you would want to repeat and build on. Next day build on that . Additive and accumulative .
just keep on going places and you be relaxed .
 
#5 ·
first of all you treat below the threshold , not on top or over because then you inadvertently rewarding the wrong place in his mind.

Could you clarify? What is treat below the threshold? Do I tell them not to give him treats?

you should care about a social dog because that is what makes him safe and confident in a variety of environments. It is not always about the initial response , but the recovery and resilience .

Ok now my turn to clarify. :) I worded that poorly its not that I don't care, its that I don't normally put dogs in situations where they have to be social. I don't take dogs to dog parks, or around places where there are a lot of people or animals. They need to be social only with people I'm social with (which isn't very many).

You don't want him inhibited . Being social does not mean being a social butterfly, all fellows well met, heart on sleeve dog . That is contrary to what a good GSD should be.

just keep on going places and you be relaxed .
How do I react when he barks or growls. Do I correct or ignore?
 
#4 ·
Put him in your bubble. What things do you like to do? What places do you go that you'd like your dog to go with you? If you didn't have a dog, would you go to the dog park? If you like to go to parks and hike, take your dog there. If you like to go to the beach, take your dog there.
 
#7 ·
haha that's my problem. I don't go anywhere or do anything. I clean house, I play with my dogs on our 5 acres, I read books, I am on my computer. I go grocery shopping (don't take dogs). To doctors appointments (again don't take dogs), I volunteer at the Safe Haven (don't usually take dogs) sometimes I do, but he was born there so its not out of his comfort zone. We go out to dinner maybe once or twice a week (don't take dogs). In the summer we occasionally go exploring (hiking) type stuff on weekends and sometimes we take dogs but not into places where there are people. Basically we are very boring people.
 
#6 ·
I do not correct for that. When Seger is unsure of something and hackles up, I get VERY happy.

What is THAT??!! Let's go SEE! Good Boy! Look at this! You're a rock star!

He has solid genetics and apparently a lot of trust in me. As soon as I put my hand on whatever it is he's unsure, it's all over. He sniffs and moves on.

Don't force him into situations. Keep things as calm as possible. My vet is the best because both of the guys just ignore the dogs, toss them treats, while they talk to us. They let the dogs approach them.

People that come over, just toss treats, praise him. Make it a game. They love games.
 
#9 ·
Ya know what, don't worry about it. If you get a very shaky pup and put it with a family that is very inexperienced and this is their only dog, it is a set up for failure. They want to take the dog everywhere and do everything with it, and it will drive a scaredy dog nutso.

What you are is an experienced dog person who has other dogs. Just relax with the puppy. Do what you would do with a pup if it didn't have questionable limits. Go play on your five acres, and get the pup used to your life.

Going outside YOUR comfort zone and doing stuff, specifically to socialize this puppy, is kind of like making the shy dog the center of attention.

Going out ONCE a week, either to the vet office for a quick weigh and halloo and out, or to the feed store for a quick trip through, look at a few prices and out -- fine. Just loading him in the car, running for a bottle of milk, and leaving him in the car for a 10 minute round trip -- that's an outing for this week.

Just let your stable adult dogs, and your relaxed and experienced self help your puppy gain confidence by not doing too much, too quick.

If you go out every day and meet a new person, place or thing, for a whole year, and then stay home on your five acres for the next 10, what difference would it have made.

Personally, if this pup is still seriously lacking confidence at six months old, I would probably sign up for a beginners rally or agility class, and start usuing some very positive treat-training to help build the confidence. But for these two months, I would just chill with the pup, and maybe take it out once a week for a quick easy something.
 
#10 ·
nah , the vet is a charged environment . You have to appreciate that there are smells of fear from other distressed or nervous animals. A lot of dogs aren't good there - why take a young pup there to have this telegraphed to them.
Plus , once again he will be the target of attention .

Feed-store is an excellent place because by and large the people are pretty blasé about dogs and animals - down to earth . He won't be so pounced on . Generally there aren't other dogs there.
Good idea on that one.

Leaving the dog in the car can be risky because you could have people tapping on the window class provoking him intentionally or not , and then you end up with a wary dog ready to bark at passers by.

take him for that ride and then walk him for 5 minutes , once around the block or to some landmark and back - on the other side and pass the car -- and then come back to it on the correct side.

if you have family and friends coming over then make sure he behaves himself . he doesn't need to be mauled - everyone mind their own business . it is about getting appropriate response in a situation. the introduction to different situations are observation and teaching moments to guide the dog to a desirable response.
 
#11 ·
I think it is never too soon, for quick in and outs of the vet's office. Yes it is charged. Sitting there and waiting is not what I am talking about. I am talking about going in, putting the puppy on the scale, and going out. This shows the puppy that not all vet visits end with getting poked or prodded. And it can eliminate the need for a dog to be muzzled at the vet forever. Works for me anyway.

People don't tap on my windows. But park in front of the windows, go in, get milk and bread and back out. I am not talking about doing your weeks' grocery shopping.
 
#14 ·
Thank you everyone for your replies. :)

LOL! Well, your homework is for you and your dog to go to one NEW place this week! How about a local feed store? Most of them allow dogs. Go price dog food, toys leashes etc. at the feed store.....and take your dog!!!
Wait I have to socialize too? :D

Thanks for the suggestion. We hopped in the car and went to tractor supply this afternoon. He did great. Everyone said what a good boy he was. He was reserved but no barking or growling. He even took a treat from the cashier. :) He wasn't to thrilled with the car ride tho.

the vet is a charged environment . You have to appreciate that there are smells of fear from other distressed or nervous animals. A lot of dogs aren't good there - why take a young pup there to have this telegraphed to them.
Plus , once again he will be the target of attention .
I socialized Ivan there but he was older and a different kind of fearful. (cage aggressive and collar shy after being in the shelter and god knows what else)He was shaking so bad the first time I took him I had to carry him in. Then later a harness Now he walks in like he owns the place, wearing his beautiful rolled leather collar. My vet was awesome with him. Let him explore on his own time. In and out of the kennels, gave him rides on her table. It took 3 times a week for several months but he is perfect. Her techs are great. They offer treats but didn't force it on him.

Maybe I'm overthinking things but all the socialization threads have me nervous. Ivan had one specific problem that I was working on. The pup I'm shaping. I don't want to screw it up. :eek:

lol , every visit to the vets is an opportunity for them to sell you some service , guilt you into something

Funny thing is, if you do not give them any positive reinforcement the behavior eventually extinguishes.
:rofl:
 
#16 ·
I'm pretty comfortable with:
Leerburg

I had no problem with this protocol with my people aggressive GSD. He didn't like people might have been fear? Don't know he did not strike me as being afraid but it's what I did. I allowed no one to touch him until I could read him like a book! He went behind me if I spoke to people he learned that was his place.

Today I can take him anywhere, we went to down town Carson City a couple weeks ago for a stroll and he had a great time. Course down town Carson City there was barely anyone on the street at 11:00 am. :) But still he was there without issue.

So out here your going to have to go find people for him to ignore!:D
 
#17 ·
I thought your Shepherd was an adult when you socialized him? Or am I confused.

Took Sarge to Tractor Supply in Carson on Wednesday and then to Pet Edge in Reno on Thursday. He is not fond of the car though. Got car sick on I-80. Also used my gas supply for the week. :crazy:
 
#22 ·
I think at some point you also have to keep in mind what the puppy's eventual 'reality' is going to be, too. Say you're taking him all over the place right now - is that going to be an issue when for the next decade or more, he's just hanging around your own home? Will he be frustrated because he wants to go everywhere with you? I'm just posing the question, because I am truly curious what's best for the long-term.

Now, if you lived in a city and all your time off was spent walking your dog and sitting on patios together, taking him to work, having lots of people visiting, etc. then it would be different. But if you're a happy homebody with very few visitors, that's a different lifestyle altogether.
 
#23 ·
Good point. I don't know? I socialized Ivan this way and he is a happy homebody but he is not a Shepherd. The longest part of our trips is driving to get there. We don't spend long in the store, or the vets office, or wherever we go. I don't want to overwhelm him.
 
#34 ·
Ok we had a wonderful weekend off. No socializing for either of us. :D Actually hubby and I went out to dinner but that's a little different. ;)

So back to puppy training 101. Tomorrow I need to decided between the vet (30 min drive) or the Big R (feed and ranch store 45-50 min drive).

Unfortunately those are the closest things too me.

I didn't get any answers on how often I should be doing this. I'm thinking rather than every day like last week. Maybe Monday/Wednesday/Thursday (I have a Dr. Appt on Friday so that's out). :confused:

Pup is not happy about car rides. I moved his harness out of the way today and he ran and hid in his crate. Poor baby. I don't want to make socialization unhappy for him but the only way to do it is to get in the car.

I just saw a socialization checklist on another thread.. There is no way. I think that's kind of overboard. :wild:
 
#35 · (Edited)
Ok we had a wonderful weekend off. No socializing for either of us. :D Actually hubby and I went out to dinner but that's a little different. ;)

So back to puppy training 101. Tomorrow I need to decided between the vet (30 min drive) or the Big R (feed and ranch store 45-50 min drive).

Unfortunately those are the closest things too me.

I didn't get any answers on how often I should be doing this. I'm thinking rather than every day like last week. Maybe Monday/Wednesday/Thursday (I have a Dr. Appt on Friday so that's out). :confused:

Pup is not happy about car rides. I moved his harness out of the way today and he ran and hid in his crate. Poor baby. I don't want to make socialization unhappy for him but the only way to do it is to get in the car.

I just saw a socialization checklist on another thread.. There is no way. I think that's kind of overboard. :wild:
Yea I saw that also. Oh well thats what behaviourist are for.:D

I'd go for the vet office, shorter car trip and in the long run much more important he's comfortable there at the vet .

If he's starting to dread the car rides... maybe getting him more comfortable in the car is more important for "this" dog first then socialization as such.

I understand what "your" goals are but what about him? Maybe start giving him treats in the car? Don't go anywhere, just let him be in a non moving car for a bit then go for a regular walk.

Try it for a few days make the car a fun experience for him just a thought. :)
 
#36 ·
if the dog isn't great riding in the car , why go on these long trips.

load the dog into the car . sit around for a while. turn on ignition, radio , heater .

drive around the block 5 minutes , come home .

park car , stay in car , without any big to do let dog out of car .

make it normal , everyday occurrence.
 
#41 ·
I've already tried the different ride thing. It doesn't matter. Truck, Car, in crate, out of crate he gets sick. It's not the car. He will happily curl up and take a nap if its not moving.

BTW, He is not the only one in his litter that is having the car sick problem.

I just bought the harness, last week. He made it home without getting sick. I'm really hoping sitting him in front with the air blowing on him does the trick.
 
#42 ·
don't have him looking out the side window .

I did this before for someone whose dog would start heaving a minute or two into the ride .

So I took over as a service and did the fix . That was before I had a truck with a separate cab . That was when I had my Safari van and when a dog upchucked I tell you it was the most awful smell . Bitterness deep from the gut, and hard to clean slime. But I guess you know.
As time went on that changed .

Ginger is good for motion sickness.
So is Rescue as a relaxer .

Dog would get a meatball with some finely grated ginger about 15 minutes in prep for the ride . When put into the crate there would be another blob of meat . The dog was put into the crate . The owner beside me . At this point I would be parked along side the curb of the residence. Owner and I would just talk so that the dog was aware that she was there . This reduced any extra anxiety . Ignition on , move forward one length of car , throw it into park, still running, yack a bit more , then reverse the car . Did this the width of the property , moving tiny bits. I am telling you this was the worst , smelliest experience. I just caught myself getting queasy in remembering the smell and the mess.

For a while that was the extent of it .
Owner would leave and enter house . Dog remained behind with me .

After a while the dog was brought out of the crate , I would snap on the lead , wipe down the drool , and take a quick run up the block and return . Dog back in the crate in the van.
Ignition on . Move back and forth a few times. Wait . Matter of factly dog brought out and taken into his home where there was no big to do , just a matter of fact go lie down on a mat . You can't make coming home a big event because then the dog anticipates coming home as a relief from travelling.

Do this a couple of times in a week or two. Eventually you get onto the road but do very short runs -. The particular dog I am thinking of lived about 1/4 mile away from a strip mall. That would be our destination. Leave home , arrive there .

I would come prepared with a second crate, rubber gloves , Lysol , large garbage bag, cooler (broken lid) so only used for this purpose (and hauling green tripe) , towels , dry and wet , and a stack of newspapers .
At first the owner would be with me and we would have friendly chat so that the dog could pick up on the no stress atmosphere. If you anticipate problems and get tense the dog will be able to pick it up and think there is a reason to be stressed and respond accordingly . We would arrive at destination. I would open back doors , check on dog . Probably with thick ribbons of slime -- but okay. Close the door . Owner and I would go grab a coffee . Come back . Drive around the perimeter of the parking lot . Park somewhere else .
This is how it went .
Eventually the trips got longer , and without the owner. If the "smell" or the upchuck noise happened I would pull up at the next safe place to do so. Dog taken out on lead -- but kept in the vehicle ! given a quick wipe down and put into the spare crate . The messy one cleaned , and ready . This is the way it went .
This dog ended up fine . I wouldn't say a robust happy to travel guy, but fit for travel and no more upchucking or drooling.
 
#43 ·
OMG Carmspack that sounds terrible. If my boy was like that I would forget socialization and never take him anywhere.

He pukes but its after we have been on the hwy. It is normal doggie puke and he always seems ok right after. Its like once he pukes he feels better. Believe me if we could stick to dirt and back roads and get somewhere we would do that, but the only way to go anywhere where there is people is getting out on the hwy.





 
#46 ·
Air bag can kill him if you have one.

They say dogs do not get motion sickness like people do, that it is caused by nerves. The only thing to do is desensitize the dog to the car. Many quick trips around the block and quit. And then as he becomes more calm, make it two blocks. I don't know how true that is though.

The only puker I had was my first. He never acted nervous about anything, he was more of a butthead about everything.

What I do with puppies, is I take them in the car before I feed them. If I know that we are going somewhere, I will with hold the meal. But that is just me. A few hours one way or the other will not kill a puppy. But if you fill them up, and then take them for a spin, the chances are that much greater that they will spew.

Might try socializing first thing in the morning.
 
#48 ·
Air bag is off when he is in front seat.

Pup didn't seem scared of car at all just miserable after riding in it, out on highway. I've had dogs that were scared who never got sick. Even got pee'd on once a puppy was so scared first car ride. LOL

I have tried first thing in the morning, not feeding, nothing helped till I got him up front. Hopefully it is something that he will grow out of and I can transition him back into the back. I don't like having him up front, even though he is harnessed in, it makes me nervous.
 
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