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What would happen if a puppy is never properly socialized?

8K views 100 replies 22 participants last post by  onyx'girl 
#1 ·
He's really skittish around people and sometimes but now often, put in a little growl... So my question is what would happen if he was never socialized too well?
 
#2 ·
It really depends on the dog and it's genetic nerve strength. Some dogs grow up in a kennel, coming out only to work and are very social and stable, some dogs are heavily socialized as puppies and are fearful.




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#4 ·
What do you think socialization is? That is a serious question. People have different ideas of it.

As gsdsar says, it depends on the dog. I got my puppy right before it got so cold and miserable so he missed the ideal socialization time. However, he has very good nerve so anything he is suspicious of he checks out and recovers quickly.

With your puppy, I would say get a trainer and work on behavior modification. Learn the tools. LAT, BAT.

Socialization is not having your puppy meet a ton of people and dogs. It's exposing him to many new things and helping him work through his fear.
 
#5 ·
So would he most likely be aggressive when he's an adult? The breeder I got him from had two young kids and they had even already named the pups and would play with them and all, but the dad is a police dog but they said the mom was more social... So that's why I'm worried about that considering the dad being a police dog. But I wouldn't think that'd have anything to do with genetics since they're trained to be .
 
#6 ·
If the dog is of good nerve with balance in the drives and temperament the aggression will only come out when necessary. That does come from genetics, not so much the training or socializing the dog has had.
If your puppy is fearful and shows reactive aggression that is fear based, it is genetic.
 
#9 ·
Two red flags are the use of "social but protective" and "police dog" (rarely true, just a sales pitch....). Be prepared for anything and everything. I have a genetically weak-nerved dog, and looking back I could have made everything a lot easier if I knew what I was dealing with from the start. Usually with dogs like mine, flooding them with all sorts of new experiences without knowing how to manage it is going to make the problem worse, not better. I definitely agree with learning about LAT/BAT.


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#11 ·
He's just a baby. They're freaked out by things that we don't see immediately. Could be the smell of her laundry soap being different or a slight irregularity to how she walks.
 
#13 ·
an 8 week old pup is just a baby! Everything is new. Though....I'd want the pup to recover and show confidence in most situations. Keeping the confidence level up is most important, and not coddling a pup when it shows hesitation but encourage the puppy to think of those 'scary situations' as no big deal.
 
#16 ·
Do they normally use intact males as police dogs?

I've always heard that was a line byb breeders use to make their pups sound special and appeal to uninformed buyers...

I don't think a growling 8 week old would bother me much, personally.
I would be concerned with an 8 week old pup growling out of fear(and most often it IS fear based!) Temperament and genetics show very early. I'd much rather have a confident pup that is curious and intrigued by anything they are exposed to.

Many LEO K9's are intact, but,yea, that buzzword probably plays into marketing with some breeders.
 
#21 ·
Yes 8 weeks is just a baby but a growl at ANY age means the dog is nervous/uncomfortable with something. The "he'll grow out of it when he's more mature" is another crap excuse.

You shouldn't have to ease a pup along. They shouldn't need to meet more people so that they are comfortable. They should be born comfortable and confident. Of course new things can scare a pup but it needs to recover quickly.

You can tell a lot about a dogs nerves at 8 weeks old.
 
#22 ·
An 8 week old puppy should not be skittish.

In truth he should still be at the breeders , getting ready to leave .

"but the dad is a police dog but they said the mom was more social... So that's why I'm worried about that considering the dad being a police dog. But I wouldn't think that'd have anything to do with genetics since they're trained to be . "

this I don't believe . For all the dogs that are supposed to be police dogs there would be a veritable army of K9's, outnumbering human law enforcement officers. And genetics has everything to do with it . This enables them to be trained .
 
#23 · (Edited)
@Madisonmj97 - How long has it been since you adopted your puppy? If I am right in assuming it has only been a couple of days, I think you should be focusing your energy on building a positive, trusting relationship with your puppy.

I am not a puppy expert, but I am sure others can share with you positive activities you can be doing with your puppy to build a bond.

I worry that all of your threads are assuming a negative about your pup… OCD, growling, etc… this is not the mindset you should have with a new pup. You should be working on finding ways to positively engage the puppy so as to build a relationship of trust between pup and handler.

As I mentioned, I don’t have a lot of experience with puppies. But, the first thing I do with any foster dog, or dog I adopt, is work on building trust. Once I have that, I know I have solid footing that will help me work towards other goals.
 
#25 ·
yes well I got him 3 weeks ago from a breeder... And my last adopted black GSD was extremely aggressive and I was just be cautious about it. I've never had a GSD pup act like this one.
We've bonded pretty well also, so that's not a prob
 
#28 ·
I have to agree with people who are thinking its fear, and while it is a puppy, some times I do think given their lack of experiences mixed with insecurity comes out in that kind of fearful manner. Someone walking into a room unexpected could surprise any dog, or really any thing that is in the room, human, cat etc. Just because the initial sound from the puppy was a growl does not mean it will automatically be an aggressive animal. It was likely surprised by the presence of another and reacted.

The first time my new puppy met my golden was when he leaped out of my SUV when we went to put the crate up in there, and I had forgotten that he was wearing a soft blue e-collar due to having a grass awn removed from his side the day before. Doyle instantly started sounding off at him, doing a bit of a pattern of getting closer and backing off. I removed the e-collar from Myles and by and large ignored the behavior. Just put Myles back in after the crate was loaded, and put the puppy back into the crate then drove to our next location.

By the time that we went to the clinic I work at, then out for a hike so that all the dogs could meet one another on neutral ground, he'd forgotten or gotten past the fact the first time that he saw Myles, he had this odd blue demon about his neck. Now they're the best of friends and play bitey face all the time, curl up to sleep together.

Guess I wouldn't instantly slap the word aggressive to the puppy, but maybe rather try to find ways to introduce things that stay at a comfortable level for him. That rethinking link someone posted is a great thread honestly. You may have the potential for him to be fearful if you aren't careful, but you should just use it to help you aim for the goal of helping him feel more confident about his safety and the world around him so that he can ignore what bothers him or trust you to keep him safe from what scares him.
 
#29 ·
Yup you seem to know a good bit. I'll see if your advice helps. But I've had a lot of experience with GSD and puppies that I've had in the past. This is the only one that is a little more yappy then my usual ones that I've experienced. I was just asking what would happen if my pup wasn't socialized proper. Have you ever had an 7 week old GS pup?
 
#31 ·
My first dog was probably around 8ish weeks when I got her, and I know for a fact that I didn't socialize her well at all. I've worked in shelters and am a vet tech, so I tend to see all kinds of dogs from different backgrounds all the time. Kenai was not really a nervous or fearful dog. However, due to her being my first dog, she was not well socialized with dogs or strangers. Unless you lived in the house (which was just my parents, me, brother and sister and my grandmother for a time), you were considered a stranger. Even if we always had friends over all the time.

She would be right in people's faces when they came into the house, barking with her ruff up. If you pushed, she would back off and while she looked intimidating, it was all bluster. She would quiet down when they would be sitting, but any time that they stood up, she would be on her feet and barking at them again. It was a nuisance, but she was not aggressive by any means. People could walk past her. She never came all the way up to them.

That is the only real experience that I have there with a puppy of that age frame.

My current puppy I received when he was around 22 weeks of age. He had been socialized by his breeder, and I literally picked him based on pictures and a bit of video. He was curious when the man in the video was raking leaves and kept following the woman around in it with interest. He appeared bold and curious. The fact that after having him a total of 10 minutes that he would stretch out next to me where I was sitting on the floor at the vet clinic, quietly observing things. Then within the half hour of landing (he flew in from Portland), we were on a hike and he was with two new humans and a good... seven strange new dogs, eagerly romping after them and hanging near the humans, it has been a vastly different experience so far. He handles things with a calm and curious demeanor. However he also is a much more talkative boy than my first dog was lol.

Every dog is unique. :) Exposure without force I think is key in actually "socializing" your dog. I don't make Doyle meet everyone who we come in contact with, or get concerned if he backs away when a person tries to touch him. Strangers are a passing curiosity. Other dogs are either ignored or yelled at, even when he's loose in the foothills with a ton of people and dogs. It's on his terms there, nothing forced, many odd things to see and smell. He recovers very well when nervous. Given my last puppy (the golden) hit his second fear phase and decided people were scary, I've played the desensitizing game a lot with him. :) Helps though that he's also a golden and not nearly as sensitive as a shepherd lol.
 
#32 ·
My older dog was not socialized as a puppy (I was 12 when we got her, didn't know better, and my parents didn't either).

As a consequence, she is dog reactive on a leash, and wants absolutely nothing to do with other dogs. She is OK with my puppy, but needs her away time. If she is in the same enclosure with other dogs she will be all bold and assertive and then ignore them no matter what they do to her, but if even just a small fence separates them, she will bark and bark and bark, try to go after them.

She's not aggressive because we did do a lot with bite inhibition, proper behaviors when around other people and stomped out any possibility of aggression (from her, the reactiveness if around another aggressive dog is still a possibility)... but I also wouldn't ever go to a dog park or let her loose with more than one or two dogs.

Granted... she's not a GSD, and her drive is nowhere near as strong.

HOWEVER... she was encouraged to be confident. So many people think "socialization" and start forcing puppies to do all sorts of things. And that is very incorrect and can be very detrimental. Confidence is the key. Take puppies places or not, but only do what they can confidently do. Growling at this young of an age could mean a serious aggression problem... but 99% of the time it's fear. Not aggression. They will defend themselves... and growling and biting is a part of that. Going back to what they are confident with and slowly building up again ONLY as long as they continue to be confident... in you and in themselves, is the best way IMO to work through these issues.

Not forcing socialization.


As for the age... my pup Arya came home with me at 7 weeks. She is a very confident and friendly dog. When she loses confidence, she comes by me, and feeds off of my own confident energy... and she regains it. I don't push her to do anything she isn't confident enough to do. I build that confidence by having her do a little more each time... but I never force it. She loves new people, and loves to do new things.

Several of her littermates are the opposite. They will accept the "socialization"... but don't wag their tails or eagerly look forward to it. Instead, given the opportunity, they would rather hide in their kennel until the people went away.

Socialization isn't about having them meet as many people and dogs as possible and see as many things as possible. It's about getting them to be completely confident in as many places as possible. And there could be some places that they are never comfortable or confident in... and so you just don't bring them there. Some dogs would never do well going to say... a state fair. Whereas others would just love it. Did you fail in socialization by not forcing the former to go to the state fair? No. If your dog is confident going into most new experiences, and has a confident demeanor overall, your job is done IMO.
 
#33 ·
Yes 8 weeks is just a baby but a growl at ANY age means the dog is nervous/uncomfortable with something. The "he'll grow out of it when he's more mature" is another crap excuse.
Not necessarily a "crap excuse" depending on the dog and it's lines, they do need to grow and mature to learn how to deal with their aggression. And at times you can have a pup that shows insecurity/un-sureness/reactivity when young and grow up to be more confident and fine when everything comes together..

I guess when your around a lot of dogs, you learn these things.. You keep an open mind.. You see the actual dogs as they mature...
 
#34 ·
I worked with a trainer (we talked almost daily) from day 1 with my pup and this is what I did with my pup at that age.

I ALWAYS had treats when I called him. On the rare occassion I didn't, I had a toy and made darn sure I made myself exciting and worth coming to. I didn't expect him to learn compulsory commands.

I didn't have fear issues with my pup, but constantly worked on reinforcing his confidence. No negative corrections, I let him "win" games, and tried not to put him in situations that might frighten him at that age. When he did seem unsure, I ignored and acted if nothing was wrong. I made some mistakes along the way, but I was fortunate that my pup came from a good breeder and confident parents.

The first thing my trainer drilled in to me was that I wanted my pup to be confident and trust me to keep him safe. It was totally new to me that I couldn't tell him NO all of the time and take things away (without a trade), but I believe it paid off.

You're getting better advice from the more experienced here, but this was just my journey. If your pup is nervous, which seems to be the consensus, I'd go overboard to build his confidence and not worry about "training" at this age (mine would only come when called for a treat at this age too).

Good luck :)

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#38 ·
get your pup into training classes, learn how to read his body language correctly. Be proactive and redirect before reactivity happens. Fear aggression is not always something that the dog outgrows. It is up to the handler to manage and help the dog either overcome or deal with.

An 8 week old pup should know that the handler has its world under control so it can feel secure and grow confidently. You have your work cut out for you. I hope you can do it successfully.
 
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