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Old 02-20-2014, 09:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 8.5 month old dog reactive

Hi all

I have a 8.5 month girl and she has a behaviour problem. I have been asking advice from tons of people and schools and they gave alot of different advices as to how to deal with this problem.

I just found 2 youtube videos from a trainer that deals with the same behaviour problem as my girl has. I would like to hear your opinions about this method.
(In the title it says "leash aggression" altough this is not an aggression issue. The trainer himself says the behaviour is not agression. I don't know why the title says "aggression" instead of "leash reactive"?)

At 3.10 you get a clear view of the behaviour problem:


At 1.29 you get a clear view of the behaviour problem:


The trainer uses a prong collar. In my country (Belgium) prong collars are seen as a torture device by 98 % of the people. The 1% uses them in a few Schutzhund clubs and the other 1 % uses them on pitbulls whose owners can't control them. Here in Belgium most dog schools uses a halti for the "difficult" cases.

I'm an open minded person and i would like to hear your opinions on how the trainer in the videos handle those dogs with that behaviour. I assume the dogs in the video are adults and my girl is "only 8.5 months" but she weights already 68 lbs and is getting very strong.

Greetings
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This trainer got results with this method.

I don't particularly think it is fair to take a dog into a stimulating situation, slap a prong on it and correct it until it does nothing. I choose to teach the dog how the leash works, what behaviors I am looking for, and how to turn the leash off. I do all this before I add any distractions.

With that being said, I saw no harsh corrections at all. I wouldn't fault a trainer for working like this with this type of dog. If you try the same thing with a harder dog, you could get bit. A prong correction will sometimes amplify the intensity in the dog.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I had to watch these without sound but we did something similar to this, taught a heel and did corrections like that for attention drifting towards the dogs. Worked for us too.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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heres an article on counter conditioning reactive

http://www.peninsulahumanesociety.or...nditioning.pdf dogs.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
This trainer got results with this method.

I don't particularly think it is fair to take a dog into a stimulating situation, slap a prong on it and correct it until it does nothing. I choose to teach the dog how the leash works, what behaviors I am looking for, and how to turn the leash off. I do all this before I add any distractions.

With that being said, I saw no harsh corrections at all. I wouldn't fault a trainer for working like this with this type of dog. If you try the same thing with a harder dog, you could get bit. A prong correction will sometimes amplify the intensity in the dog.
Nothing to add to that!

Now a days "my" approach is if I'm not getting the results I want with regular "tools"flat collar or the (Martingale? collar) and a flat leash, then I think... what am "I" doing wrong???

You can't screw up your dog doing this:

If you use a prong improperly...you can screw up your dog.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Should desensitization and counterconditioning also be used when the behaviour is caused by over-excitement? The article talks about fear, anxiety and aggression but not about excitement. I personally find it very hard sometimes to determine whether the reactiveness towards other dogs is based on over-excitment and/or uncertainty. I got the impression that my girl sometimes barks and lunges because she is unsure and sometimes because of over- excitement.

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Originally Posted by Msmaria View Post
heres an article on counter conditioning reactive

http://www.peninsulahumanesociety.or...nditioning.pdf dogs.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Nothing to add to that!

Now a days "my" approach is if I'm not getting the results I want with regular "tools"flat collar or the (Martingale? collar) and a flat leash, then I think... what am "I" doing wrong???

You can't screw up your dog doing this:
Stop your dog from pulling on the leash video - YouTube

If you use a prong improperly...you can screw up your dog.
I disagree. You can screw up a dog with a flat collar. You can allow it to practice self reinforcing behavior which will increase that behavior. Per a chiropractor in a recent article, you can cause spinal problems.

I'll timed praise is as bad as I'll timed corrections. Look at the first video. They were praising the dog for bad behavior, making it worse.

I don't really understand what you mean by "regular tools." I regularly use a harness, prong and e-collar. I don't use a flat collar for much except detection on a 6' leash and to hold identification tags.

Again, this conversation would be more productive talking about what is going on with the dog and why these methods work versus equipment preference. I don't use a prong because it is a prong. I use it because it allows me to communicate with the dog in a way that removes opposition reflex.

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Lucian - Med Alert (Cane Corso)
Pud - the old man (Pit x Lab)
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS_ View Post
Should desensitization and counterconditioning also be used when the behaviour is caused by over-excitement? The article talks about fear, anxiety and aggression but not about excitement. I personally find it very hard sometimes to determine whether the reactiveness towards other dogs is based on over-excitment and/or uncertainty. I got the impression that my girl sometimes barks and lunges because she is unsure and sometimes because of over- excitement.
i dont see why not, its all positive with rewards and treats. Basically, your treating her for being calm. The behavior you want.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i dont see why not, its all positive with rewards and treats. Basically, your treating her for being calm. The behavior you want.
Does a dog really get it when he gets a treat for being calm? I mean do they make the link treat - calm state of mind? I think it's easier to teach a dog to do something (active things) then to teach a state of mind?

Example:
treat-sit, treat-lay down, treat-watch me,... than to treat when not barking or lunging?
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS_ View Post
]I just found 2 youtube videos from a trainer that deals with the same behaviour problem as my girl has. I would like to hear your opinions about this method.
(In the title it says "leash aggression" altough this is not an aggression issue. The trainer himself says the behaviour is not agression. I don't know why the title says "aggression" instead of "leash reactive"?)
Wow, if that's the video your using for a reference, you have set your standards very high!

That guy is really good, and I don't know if I could produce that result that quickly! I like him and I use him but I use him (with the 90 lbs pitt on a prong) to say: if you can't follow and understand what this guy is doing...don't use a prong!

Your dog has to be able to properly walk on a leash first! The video I posted you can do, and "won't do any harm"!

And don't go looking for dogs to add stress at this point! Your still learning your dog.
Get him to walk on a leash first, then you'll find something like this a bit simpler:


Finally if it's all abit confusing find a qualified training or at least ask for a consultation, I did that with my first dog.

I though he was Dominant Aggressive Male! The guy checked him out and said no your dogs "not" a Dominant "Aggressive" Male, he's a Dominant Male but he's just an A Hole!
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