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Old 01-01-2014, 09:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default dog bit with no warning

pup is 8 months and is very very aloof to strangers. he is loving in the house to the family. on walks he ignores people. i've walked inches by children, joggers, kids riding bikes and he could care less. i've walked him off leash next to kids on bikes and random people and he doesnt even want to go over to sniff them. no reaction at all. he will tolerate being pet by strangers for a few seconds and then dodge their hand.

now with all that said; today my friend came over to pick up something from me. i opened the front door with dog on leash. the dog see's my friend coming up the drive way and doesnt even bark. i open the door and step out on the porch. now my dog is pulling and whining so i figured to let the dog sniff my friend. when he reached my friend instead of sniffing he jumped up and bit him on the stomach. it was more of a scratch than anything. no ripped clothes or bruises or anything but it definitely wasnt friendly. i immediately corrected and then the dog sat for a few seconds and then started whining and pulling again. he wasnt pulling hard as i was holding his leash in one hand and able to give my friend his stuff in the other hand. my friend left and the dog just went over to the front yard to take a piss like nothing happened. no barking, growling, or lunging. no hair standing up. no warning signs that i could see. people have been able to come into the house before. he's met people outside of our house before. when people come inside he will just whine and pull but he will just sniff them. what the heck was this? pure aggression?

i'm not looking for advice on how to deal because tomorrow i'm having a friend come over and if he puts his teeth on a stranger i am going to correct him hard. i'm just confused why he acted like this? extremely territorial? fear? the dog doesnt even bark at the mail man. i've never heard him bark at anyone in public. the only time he barks is when someone rings the doorbell or someone knocks.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That's a grand plan.

Nobody here can tell you why he did that because nobody here saw it happen. My advice, always in these cases, is get a good trainer.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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A tight leash might have had something to do with it, your feelings about this meeting might have something to do with it. Generally, my dogs are more friendly when they are not leash restrained at a door.

Why not work with having the dog sit well away from the door before you open it?
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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usually when someone enters the house i make him sit while they enter the house and go down the hall way into the living room. he sits when asked. this was a close friend and i wanted him to meet the dog. i mean the dog is well behaved enough and not reactive that i walk him without a leash around the neighborhood. he ignores all strangers.

he wasnt protecting me. he didnt seem fearful or nervous. he was alert and a little bit hyper. but VERY confusing as to why he bit for what i can see was for no reason and to my eyes, without any warning. can a dog bite just because he's being a big bully or is there always a reason behind a bite or attempted bite?
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I second the advice to get a trainer. And I would hesitate to "correct him hard" until you get an idea of where the behavior is coming from. You might end up making it worse.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
can a dog bite just because he's being a big bully or is there always a reason behind a bite or attempted bite?
IMO, there is always a reason. it might be fear, genetic hard wiring, a dog coming into maturity, wrong signals from the handler, bad body language from another dog.

That's why you need a trainer. Get it stopped now and do it properly. Don't just drop the hammer on him without having guidance from a professional.

Aren't you doing Schutzhund with him? Talk to your TD.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Are you working with a club? I know you want to do IPO, Protection, or something of the sort with bitework?? Are you attempting any bitework on your own? What kind of training are you doing on your own? What kind of corrections are you giving in this type of training. What makes you say, "it definitely wasnt friendly." I was at first inclined to believe that it was just out of super duper hyper, "I need to bite something because I'm so crazy right now." But your comment "it definitely wasn't friendly" made me second guess that.

If you aren't with a club, you need to get with one asap. You may not be doing any "formal" training in bitework, but you've made comments like "IPO is just a prey game, anyone can put a sleeve on and play with their dog in prey, it's a game." Or something of the sort (I believe that was you, I am so sorry if I am misquoting or thinking or someone else). I think the "anyone can play with their dog in prey" is true to an extent, but you really REALLY need to be very very experienced to play with your dog if you are trying to work towards any type of bitework. You need to be able to really be POSITIVE the dog is only in prey, and imo that takes some experience. Even the most genetically sound dogs can get conflicting/confusing training or interactions and it can manifest itself in ways you might not expect. If you aren't working with a TD or trainer that has experience you probably won't catch the early signs of insufficient/unclear training and it's effects.

I don't take a step forward in training (of any kind, obedience, bitework, tug/prey play, tracking, etc) without very specific guidance from my TD. Then I do whatever step is required with the TD at the club, make sure I really understand what I'm supposed to be doing at home, and THEN I do it. I don't even play tug a whole heck of a lot without the club. And when I do play tug (3ish times a week not counting club), I'm with the club enough that anything counter-productive I'm doing at home is caught super quick when I work the dog at club, and I make adjustments.

Bottom line, don't ignore this (not saying you are), and don't necessarily write it off as "bullying">>not sure what you mean by that. I don't let any of my dogs pull me to someone they want to meet. They have to sit and wait....they learn calmness=interaction. I don't correct my pup for anything (he's obviously younger than yours), he just doesn't get to meet anyone in a super high energy state, yanking on the lead, and pulling me to them.

Edit: I realize that you are not asking for advice on how to handle this, but I think the "why" might be because of confusing/conflicting training...plus I know you have posted a lot about walking this dog off leash all the time in public and everything...it looks like the dog isn't as trained or in control as you thought. I think it's easily fixed, I just think you really need to get on a plan with him with someone who knows their stuff.

Last edited by DaniFani; 01-01-2014 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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not with any club. wasnt going to start until next summer. i dont do any bite work with my dog. i dont even own any type of sleeve. all we do is play with his ball on string.

i said definitely not friendly because there was a growl during the bite (or milliseconds before the bite). usually i do make my dog sit if he is whining to meet the person. he only pulls or whines when the person is on my property. again out in public he doesnt care about any strangers. my friend just dropped by to borrow something from me. my dog has never ever shown any sign of aggression towards any human so a bite was the furthest thing from my mind. in the past the only humans he's pulled towards, he just wanted to sniff. this time he just bit. i would have kept him inside or put him in a sit next to me if he showed any signs of agitation or at least gave out a bark. he just whined and then bit. then acted like nothing was wrong and was hoping we were going for a walk since i clipped his leash on.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
not with any club. wasnt going to start until next summer. i dont do any bite work with my dog. i dont even own any type of sleeve. all we do is play with his ball on string.

i said definitely not friendly because there was a growl during the bite (or milliseconds before the bite). usually i do make my dog sit if he is whining to meet the person. he only pulls or whines when the person is on my property. again out in public he doesnt care about any strangers. my friend just dropped by to borrow something from me. my dog has never ever shown any sign of aggression towards any human so a bite was the furthest thing from my mind. in the past the only humans he's pulled towards, he just wanted to sniff. this time he just bit. i would have kept him inside or put him in a sit next to me if he showed any signs of agitation or at least gave out a bark. he just whined and then bit. then acted like nothing was wrong and was hoping we were going for a walk since i clipped his leash on.
Why wait until next summer? Bad habits and annoying things you need to fix are all created right now....in the foundation time. I would bump up your "start date" to now. Especially since you now have this issue. You say there were no signs, but you may have just missed them? I know you are in the same boat as me, this is your first "working line dog" after a byb dog that was nervy. I like to hope that I can read my dog really well, but sometimes I just lack the experience to catch the little things my TD and decoy/TD catch immediately. I'd start looking and join now...it's a great time, dog is around 8 months, right?? You can start doing a lot of proper foundation stuff under the right guidance right now. :-)
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You missed pretty obvious signs. Whining and pulling are pretty big red flags something like that could happen.
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