Excited/submissive urination ever since visitor screwed up

[Rachel.E]

So, about two weeks ago, I sold my fridge on craigslist. A girl who came to look at the fridge took one look at Khaleesi, was like "OMG a german shepherd!!!" and without asking, picked her up and starting hugging her.

Khaleesi hates being picked up and hugged, even by her family, so you can imagine what she was like from a stranger. She was squealing and barking and squirming around, and I was like "ummm, she doesn't like that, can you please put her down". So the girl put her on the floor, and she promply peed on the floor, and ran away, tail between her legs. Ever since then, every time a visitor comes over, she takes one look at them, and pees on the floor. I don't know if it is out of excitement or fear.

Othan this, she has ZERO accidents in the house. So I don't think its a housebreaking issue, it only happens when a visitor comes over. She even does it with our friends that she has met multiple times. What can I do to stop it?

P.S.- she is in puppy kindergarten, and I also take her on walks and to the park, and allow strangers to greet her and give her treats, in order to give her positive associations with people.

[blehmannwa]

I love her name! Maybe have visitors ignore her or bring her outside for initial greeting.

[volcano]

I have no knowledge but it does sound submissive to me.

[Ziltoid]

My parents dog used to pee from excitement when she was young. It got to the point that people had to greet her in the backyard so it wasn't on the carpet... poor thing knew she wasn't supposed to so she'd rush up all excited to see you but kind of tense holding herself. As soon as you put your hands on her she'd relax and whoosh, out it came. She was just so over excited to see you that it built up to a momentary loss of control.

She grew out of it but it took a while, like 5 months old or something.

I've seen dogs pee from fear but that's always been obvious. Tail between legs, slinking, trying to get away etc.


What does she do when she goes? Is it while she's running up to say hi, or is she trying to stay away from them?

[Jag]

Since she ran off with her tail between her legs, I'd guess it's fear. I would increase her socialization, and get her to understand that you won't allow anyone to harm her or pick her up... ever again. If you don't have a trainer involved, I think it would be a good idea. Watch her body language, and if she doesn't want anyone to touch her, then don't allow anyone to touch her. She doesn't have to be touched by all these strangers to be socialized. Maybe the goal for her is just to have her ignore strangers. Every dog is different in what the goal of socializing is. Some dogs just don't like strangers. Once she understands that you have control of things and won't allow people to touch her or be all over her, I think the peeing will stop. Also, I don't mean to sound harsh, but it wasn't the visitor that screwed up. It was you. If you knew she didn't like being picked up, you should have had her where a stranger wasn't able to just pick her up. People seem to think they have the right to do things with other people's puppies.

[mchcthrn]

How old is she? I would guess this one visitor did not cause this but maybe revealed the problem more clearly to you (although, it kind of sounds like you knew there was an issue already). I would cut up some very special small treats (hot dogs, fresh cooked chicken, string cheese, a variety!), and keep them in the fridge. 10x a day, pick her up (for under 5 seconds!) and surprise her with 3 high value treats talking in a baby voice to her. After 5 seconds and 3 treats are gone, put her down and walk away totally ignoring her. Leave her wanting more! IMO this is imperative to take care of now, do not wait until she gets older. The handling issues will only get worse. I would also definitely recommend contacting an experienced trainer to do a private, in-home session with you to work specifically on handling. Puppy Kindergarten is probably not enough for that. Good luck!

[Jag]

Not wanting to be picked up and hugged isn't an issue. Even for a puppy. Grim didn't like being picked up and hugged, either. They aren't lap dogs, and they get big. So there's no reason to force them into allowing being picked up. As far as hugging goes, a lot of dogs don't like that. That isn't an issue either. The only issue I see here is the fear of strangers to the point of urination. Some of that could be genetics. Some could be not feeling confident in the handler's ability to protect her. Forcing a pup to allow being picked up, though... no way I'd do that. Handling a pup in ways that are necessary (paws for nails, etc) is one thing. Picking up is another thing altogether.

[Rachel.E]

Originally Posted by blehmannwa

I love her name! Maybe have visitors ignore her or bring her outside for initial greeting.

Thanks! I am going to start having people meet her outside.

Originally Posted by Ziltoid

My parents dog used to pee from excitement when she was young. It got to the point that people had to greet her in the backyard so it wasn't on the carpet... poor thing knew she wasn't supposed to so she'd rush up all excited to see you but kind of tense holding herself. As soon as you put your hands on her she'd relax and whoosh, out it came. She was just so over excited to see you that it built up to a momentary loss of control.

She grew out of it but it took a while, like 5 months old or something.

I've seen dogs pee from fear but that's always been obvious. Tail between legs, slinking, trying to get away etc.


What does she do when she goes? Is it while she's running up to say hi, or is she trying to stay away from them?

She doesn't seem afraid, she only seemed afraid that first time. She seems excited and friendly, runs up to be petted, but pees right when they pet her. Sounds sort of like what your dog did.

Originally Posted by mchcthrn

How old is she? I would guess this one visitor did not cause this but maybe revealed the problem more clearly to you (although, it kind of sounds like you knew there was an issue already). I would cut up some very special small treats (hot dogs, fresh cooked chicken, string cheese, a variety!), and keep them in the fridge. 10x a day, pick her up (for under 5 seconds!) and surprise her with 3 high value treats talking in a baby voice to her. After 5 seconds and 3 treats are gone, put her down and walk away totally ignoring her. Leave her wanting more! IMO this is imperative to take care of now, do not wait until she gets older. The handling issues will only get worse. I would also definitely recommend contacting an experienced trainer to do a private, in-home session with you to work specifically on handling. Puppy Kindergarten is probably not enough for that. Good luck!

Thanks. She isn't super bad when family handles her-just doesn't like it, grunts and groans and stuff.

Originally Posted by Jag

Not wanting to be picked up and hugged isn't an issue. Even for a puppy. Grim didn't like being picked up and hugged, either. They aren't lap dogs, and they get big. So there's no reason to force them into allowing being picked up. As far as hugging goes, a lot of dogs don't like that. That isn't an issue either. The only issue I see here is the fear of strangers to the point of urination. Some of that could be genetics. Some could be not feeling confident in the handler's ability to protect her. Forcing a pup to allow being picked up, though... no way I'd do that. Handling a pup in ways that are necessary (paws for nails, etc) is one thing. Picking up is another thing altogether.

I usually ask people not to pick her up. The people I introduce her to, I usually give them treats or kibble and ask them to give them to her once she is sitting quietly. I can't tell if it's fearful urination or not-the first time, it definitely was, she bolted away from that girl with her tail between her legs, but mostly she seems excited, she runs up to the visitors and wants them to pet her, and pees when she sees them.

[jessac]

Originally Posted by Jag

Not wanting to be picked up and hugged isn't an issue. Even for a puppy. Grim didn't like being picked up and hugged, either. They aren't lap dogs, and they get big. So there's no reason to force them into allowing being picked up. As far as hugging goes, a lot of dogs don't like that. That isn't an issue either. The only issue I see here is the fear of strangers to the point of urination. Some of that could be genetics. Some could be not feeling confident in the handler's ability to protect her. Forcing a pup to allow being picked up, though... no way I'd do that. Handling a pup in ways that are necessary (paws for nails, etc) is one thing. Picking up is another thing altogether.

I can understand that some (most) dogs wouldn't really prefer to be hugged, but I don't think that not getting them used to tolerating it is unnecessary, depending on the environment. We have lots of toddlers in our (extended) family and our neighborhood and they just love hugging our dog. While I can discourage them and teach them different ways to play with him, children are unpredictable and I think it's wise to teach the pup to tolerate it. True though that a dog of this breed is unlikely to be picked up often/ever once it's full grown.