Try tug? And I sometimes take the remains of a dismembered toy and tie a string to it, and put it on a stick and than drag it around in front of the dog -- kind of like playing with a cat. When you do that for a little, and then tug a little, then get out a SQUEEKY toy, a ball or something that is roundish, and squeak the dickens out of it, and then half throw half roll it so that she chases. Get Cher Ball! Usually they will chase it.
If she brings it back that is a bonus. Party time!!! Do it 1-2 more times, then put it away. Always stop when she wants more. Some of my dogs think that the game is to get Susie to throw the darn ball and chase it until it stops, and then watch Susie come down and get the ball. Eventually that morphs into running and chasing the ball, snatching it up, and taking it far away from Susie and waiting for her to trundle all the way across the yard to get the ball twice as far as she threw it.
I swear my dogs do a lot of laughing at me. Odie and Hepsi and Jenna are my fetch-dogs. The rest of them need remedial fetch classes. I just hate it when they run after the ball, snatch it up, drop it, sniff around, and then pee on it. Are they telling me something???
They say that dogs have a simple life philosophy: if you can't chase it, bite it, chew it, or eat it, then pee on it and walk away.
I do not do lip rolls, and I do not grab the muzzle. When my puppies would bite -- none of them were very bitey, I would tell them NO, or OUCH those are MY fingers! I want to Keep those! And then I would work on the GENTLE commands. Once we are good with gentle, I would tell them Eh! GENTLE, Gentle with susie's fingers. And they would know that they could not eat me.
I can't seem to get it through to them that the toenail down the back isn't all that comfortable either, but that is another story. We are learning not to jump on Susie. Some days are better than others, and one-on-one seems to be a lot better than 2 or more of them against me. They also like to do this malicious little tag team thing: They wait until my hands are full of the water or food bucket, and then one comes behind my knees while the other jumps on me from the front.
They are trying to kill me, I know.
Then they hear the string of obscenities that they think are terms of endearment, and they stand back and laugh at me then.
Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC