Help Please! - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master Member
 
OUbrat79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 520
Default Help Please!

I have a wonderful 4 month old GSD that is super smart. He is picking up commands really quickly and for the most part he's the perfect puppy. We also have an older, around 9 yrs, boxer. Our boxer is very laid back and very well behaved.

My GSD, Ammo, plays really well with our boxer. They love to run and play in the back yard and spend time laying on the floor together in the living room. They have had a couple very minor scraps. Usually because the Ammo gets on the boxer's nerves.

A few weeks back I took Ammo to my daughter's school for show and tell. Everything was going great, he was being very well behaved, but then another child's parent brought in another puppy. Ammo went crazy! When the puppy ran up to him he barked and growled. He was very vicious sounding. I quickly grabbed him and kept my hand around his muzzle so he wouldn't bite the much smaller puppy.

Any time he is around another dog the same thing happens. He becomes very aggressive acting, no matter the size of the dog. I don't know if he would actually hurt another dog, I've never let him get close enough to find out. I really have no idea where this aggression is coming from, but it has to stop.

The only thing I can think of that would have brought this on is that our neighbor's dogs are constantly fighting and barking on the other side of the fence. Any time one of our dogs walk up to the fence the dogs on the other side usually end up in a fight. Our boxer just ignores the fight and walks away. Ammo usually runs over to me and sits by me.

Can someone please give me some idea of why he is so aggressive acting when he sees other dogs and some idea on how to correct him? I have never had this problem with other dogs and am completely lost on how to fix it. Help Please!-imageuploadedbypg-free1359339682.471054.jpg




Sent from Petguide.com Free App
__________________
Kolt Ammo Vom Geschenk "Ammo"
OUbrat79 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-27-2013, 09:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Shade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 7,041
Default

What kind of training have you done with Ammo, specifically has he been in any classes? Also what kind of socialization, especially with other dogs outside of your boxer?

I would advise you to look up LAT training, I think it could help with keeping his attention focused on you rather then the other dogs
__________________
Shanna

My Pack:

Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
Shade is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2013, 09:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Zookeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 381
Default

There are two ways to fix this that I am aware of. Both take a lot of time and work. The first, which most modern trainers would suggest is counter-conditioning and desensitization. It would take a long time to describe how to do this properly, but basically, you expose the dog to the stimulus (other dogs) at a distance which does not cause him to react. When he doesn't react, you give him treats. You gradually decrease the distance, making sure to keep him below the threshold. You need to find a place where there are lots of dogs, but where you can control the distance between him and the other dogs. For example if there is a pet store which allows dogs to go inside, you keep your dog away from the entrance, at a place where the dogs will not pass by you. You gradually move closer to the entrance, always making sure your dog does not react at that distance before moving closer.

The other method, which worked for my dog, but which many trainers would not approve of is to again expose him to other dogs at a distance so that the reactions are not to severe, and correct him with either a strong "NO" or a leash correction when he reacts. Gradually, you decrease the distance.

There should be lots of resources available on learning the first method. Search counter-conditioning for reactive dogs.
__________________

Lila mit der Floppy-Ohr
Ellie Rubmybelly
Teddy the Fearless
Chaz the Spaz

Pokey - you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone
Zoey - may you catch the UPS man
Auggie -may you find the peace you never had
Zookeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 12:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master Member
 
OUbrat79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 520
Default Help Please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade View Post
I would advise you to look up LAT training, I think it could help with keeping his attention focused on you rather then the other dogs
The only training I have done is basic obedience. I wish we had puppy classes around here but it's a small town.

I have looked into sending him to a trainer, probably will at some point. What is LAT training?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
__________________
Kolt Ammo Vom Geschenk "Ammo"
OUbrat79 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 12:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Jag
Knighted Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,683
Default

IMO, sending him to a trainer is a bad idea. You may have to drive a bit to get him to a good trainer/behaviorist. Make sure they are well versed in the breed. If you can, build a privacy fence where the neighbor dogs are fighting. Talk to your neighbor about alternating when your dogs are out. You need positive experiences with dogs in order to begin to undo what has been done. Before I moved, my neighbors had a dog that had attacked my previous shepherd at the fence. I tried to work it out with them that when Grim was out, their dogs were in. Sometimes they didn't look... or he needed a sudden outdoor trip because we were housebreaking. I carried a large stick. If I couldn't catch Grim before he went towards the fence, I held up the stick and yelled "NO!" at the neighbor dogs. This made them go far away from the fence line. Your pup has now had a 'bad experience' with dogs outside of its pack. Hard to fix, but can be done. Please find a trainer. If you don't have your location listed, then please list it so people can help you find a good trainer. IMO, if the work is started earlier, you have a chance at a better outcome.

Also, this was just brought up at the club today. Instead of correcting, distract the dog and praise for attention to you. If you keep correcting, then the dog will think "seeing another dog equals correction" and can make the problem worse.
Jag is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
sit,stay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 3,221
Default

OP. it sounds like your puppy has not been socialized with other dogs. Although he does well with your Boxer, he needs to learn how to behave around other dogs, too.

I have gotten to the point where I no longer need my dogs to be friendly and playful with strange dogs. I just don't care. What I do care about is how well behaved my dogs are out in public. So, although I no longer encourage my dogs to "make friends" with other dogs, I do train them not to act naughty when they see strange dogs. No barking, no growling and no lunging.

This is something that you will have to specifically address in training. You mentioned that you don't have any puppy classes in your small town. You will need to expand your search for a trainer. The time and effort you put into training now, including the time you spend traveling to and from the training, will be well worth it.

I didn't see the specific reference to LAT, so I hope I am answering your question appropriately. LAT is a way to teach your dog to literally "Look At That". Instead of trying to teach them to ignore something they would want react to, we train them to actually look at whatever it is and be okay about it. "Hey, look at that...no big deal". They get rewarded for looking and not reacting. It is part of the "Control Unleashed" training protocol. Which is something that I very much recommend.

Good luck with your puppy!
Sheilah
sit,stay is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 09:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
The Agility Rocks! Moderator
 
MaggieRoseLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!)
Posts: 26,401
Default

This is 100% a socialization type issue and exactly why so many of us talk about how vital it is from day one to beyond when we get a puppy to SOCIALIZE! THere are fear stages that crop up to add to the pups stress and their NORMAL way to react to keep the scary away is to overreact like your puppy.

BTW, one of the other reasons we socialize with our pup (do not send them away) is because they need to learn to look to us, cue from us, know that we are in charge so they don't feel the need to react and take charge. Not their job. My job. If i say it's ok, then it is. And thru the 100's of pups/people we meet my pups know I'm right

I step between my pup and the scary. I greet the scary first. I show that that scary is ok. And if I'm not sure then we do not get near the scary and I still stay between my pup and the what ever. I'm the LEADER and my pup is welcome to follow and learn to read me and my normal.

click this --> Why bother to 'socialize' and I want photos/videos of puppies/dogs..... for tons of great info



BTW, what does your breeder recommend and is the rest of the litter/owners having the same issue? This would be a huge heads up to NOT do a repeat breeding if the entire litter was too fearful so they need to know.
__________________
*****
MACH3 Bretta Lee Wildhaus MXG MJG MXF MFB TQX HIT CGC TC
Glory B Wildhaus AX, AXJ, XF
plus Miss Osin Blue Wildhaus

"How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?." ANONYMOUS
MaggieRoseLee is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 01:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
Jag
Knighted Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,683
Default

Wow- I just noticed, but your Ammo looks a LOT like Grim!! How much socialization have you done with this pup outside of your home? I'm wondering if the 'show and tell' was beyond the pup's comfort zone before the other pup entered the picture.
__________________
Wrath of Grim z Dragon
"Mr. Grim"- Threaten my handler. I dare you.
Jag is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 26
Default

I know alot of people are saying it's poor socialization but what do you think would happen if your puppy actually did get close to another dog? Are you sure they would fight? My 4 month old reacted seemly aggressive to other dogs as well, barking and pulling on occasion, but the closer the other dog got the more my puppy de-escalated. The actual meeting was friendly. I checked on this behavior with some trainers/breeders and I was informed that GSD go through two fear stages, one at 4 months and the other at 8 months. They often appear aggressive but they are actuallly testing themselves. My puppy is now 6 1/2 months an is showing no signs of aggression, he has never been in a fight or tried to bite another dog. Behaves beautifully at parks with other dogs runnning around. I would suggest taking your puppy to a reputable trainer for an evaluation, they can introduce another dog to yours under controled conditions and then you'll know for sure.
WorkingK9 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master Member
 
OUbrat79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 520
Default Help Please!

I think you are all are right. He does need more socialization with other dogs. I am working on that. My biggest problem is I live 2 hrs from any type of puppy classes and work 12 hrs a day. There is just no feasible way for me to do puppy classes. I will look into the LAT training and work on him with that.

His bloodline is excellent and I got him from a very respectable breeder. I am confident the problem does not lie in his DNA makeup. He is very well rounded in every other way. By far the best dog I have ever owned.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
__________________
Kolt Ammo Vom Geschenk "Ammo"
OUbrat79 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com