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Old 12-29-2012, 05:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Thanks Marybeth & all

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Originally Posted by Mary Beth View Post
No you are not irresponsible for this one time - like I said - I've been there. Now if it continues and happens again, you will be. So of course you feel bad, I did do. Use those bad feelings to learn and prevent it from happening again. Dogs have different natures - some won't leave your side, others (well, like mine) will take off. Some people have trouble accepting that especially if they had had dogs in the past that were trustworthy off leash. They spend a lot of money on training and even give the dog up. That's how I got my Aussie. He was not trustworthy off leash - his previous owner shipped him out (no trainers in this area) for expensive training - the trainer used an e-collar with no success - he finally told her he had never met such a stubborn dog. So finally when the dog was 4 yrs old, she decided to find another home for him. He was the best dog for me. The leash is safest and you are obeying any leash laws. Work on other things with your dog and enjoy him. My advice, is not to make a big issue of this and beat yourself up about it.
So true - my last longhaired GSD was from Germany and was just the best girl ever. I assumed if I worked hard enough with Teddy he would be the dog Xena was - but we are not done yet!!!! He will be because I don't want to have him end up at the GSRNE. Thanks for the reminder that this was his first transgression - not that I wasnt aware he is capable of it at times - time to pick myself up and give him the boot in the butt he needs - no means no.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Blueoctgal how has your trainer been having you use the Ecollar? How did you introduce it?

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Originally Posted by Magwart View Post
What makes the GSD go after a dog on leash is prey drive. Your dog must always be on a leash if you live in an urban or suburban area -- and nearly all have leash laws. It's very irresponsible to risk putting other people's pets in danger. Please make peace with the fact that your dog must be leashed--not just for the foreseeable future, but always.
I think that it's rare that prey drive is involved in dog to dog aggression. Mostly it's fear related, not prey related.

ANY dog can be trained to work off leash if the right methods are applied properly. In many "urban or suburban" environments, it's appropriate to have a dog off leash. Even if you don't plan on ever letting a dog off leash, his recall should be reliable because accidents happen. Dogs bolt through doors, they pull collars over their heads and out of their owner's hands. They escape from back yards. Sometimes equipment breaks. EVERY dog should be trained to have a reliable recall and a reliable stationary command that he'll obey at a distance, no matter what distractions are present.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason that EVERY DOG cannot have a reliable recall, except that it's owner is not willing to put in the work!

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Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
I'm not 100% sure if chasing cars is a prey drive thing. I think of prey as small, something to be eaten, I don't believe any dog out there thinks they're going to eat a car.
There is "small animal prey drive," which you refer to, and "large animal prey drive" which involves larger prey, such as a man, deer, etc., and yes, perhaps cars.

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Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
Your dog could care less that the other dog is on a leash. It actually makes that dog an easier target since that dog can't get away. It's the same reason why some dogs are leash aggressive...they are in fear because they know that flight is not an option so the only other option is fight. You really need to not rush your dog, get him back on a regular leash and work on LAT and getting obedience extremely reliable.
Im not sure what LAT is either. I agree that you need to work until your OB is "extremely reliable." The dog should obey every command, without it needing to be repeated, no matter how far the dog is from you, (allowing, of course for him to hear, see, or feel the command), and no matter what distractions are present.

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He has been great with recall at the beach - even with lots of distraction that's why it just got me that he kept going last night and at such a good, submissive - therapy in training young dog!
Not sure what "good submissive therapy" means. Can you explain please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Beth View Post
That's how I got my Aussie. He was not trustworthy off leash - his previous owner shipped him out (no trainers in this area) for expensive training - the trainer used an e-collar with no success - he finally told her he had never met such a stubborn dog.
Any trainer who tells you that a dog is "stubborn" is not worthy of the title "TRAINER." Dogs aren't stubborn, that implies malice, they just have an agenda that is different from ours. DWDWDWD = Dogs Wanna Do What Dogs Wanna Do, is a saying I use to get this point across to owners. Often the things we want the dog to do, work at cross purposes to the instincts that nature put into the dog. When this happens we need to show the dog why it's in his best interest to do things the way that we want. This is pretty easy if you work WITH the dog's drives, rather than against them.

Remember the saying about getting your boss to do something ... make him think that it's his idea! If you can do this with your dog training, you're gold.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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LAT is the "look at that" game. Or you could practice "look at me." You want to train the dog to concentrate on you before the distraction shows up. Lou...I think that's kind of your method when it comes to the ecollar, right?

I don't know why you've moved to the ecollar, or what you're trying to gain from it. But if your dog is any bit of a flight risk, you should keep a leash on him so that at the end of the day whatever happens he's not going farther than the leash allows. You could probably still use the ecollar for corrections, just with a leash and conventional collar on.

Do you train with other dogs or have these always been private lessons with the trainer? You might want to introduce your dog to other dogs in a controlled environment that way your dog starts to understand that he still has to listen in those types of situations. I don't know how it is that one day your dog can be submissive-therapy on a beach and the next be going after a dog on the street but if he's that unpredictable I don't think any therapy work is in his future.

I'm not sure what method you're using to train with the ecollar, trained "traditionally" and only allowed my dog off leash at about 1.5 years old. But I would still never allow him off lead near any kind of road. Just too much risk.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouCastle View Post
Blueoctgal how has your trainer been having you use the Ecollar? How did you introduce it?



I think that it's rare that prey drive is involved in dog to dog aggression. Mostly it's fear related, not prey related.

ANY dog can be trained to work off leash if the right methods are applied properly. In many "urban or suburban" environments, it's appropriate to have a dog off leash. Even if you don't plan on ever letting a dog off leash, his recall should be reliable because accidents happen. Dogs bolt through doors, they pull collars over their heads and out of their owner's hands. They escape from back yards. Sometimes equipment breaks. EVERY dog should be trained to have a reliable recall and a reliable stationary command that he'll obey at a distance, no matter what distractions are present.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason that EVERY DOG cannot have a reliable recall, except that it's owner is not willing to put in the work!



There is "small animal prey drive," which you refer to, and "large animal prey drive" which involves larger prey, such as a man, deer, etc., and yes, perhaps cars.



Im not sure what LAT is either. I agree that you need to work until your OB is "extremely reliable." The dog should obey every command, without it needing to be repeated, no matter how far the dog is from you, (allowing, of course for him to hear, see, or feel the command), and no matter what distractions are present.



Not sure what "good submissive therapy" means. Can you explain please?



Any trainer who tells you that a dog is "stubborn" is not worthy of the title "TRAINER." Dogs aren't stubborn, that implies malice, they just have an agenda that is different from ours. DWDWDWD = Dogs Wanna Do What Dogs Wanna Do, is a saying I use to get this point across to owners. Often the things we want the dog to do, work at cross purposes to the instincts that nature put into the dog. When this happens we need to show the dog why it's in his best interest to do things the way that we want. This is pretty easy if you work WITH the dog's drives, rather than against them.

Remember the saying about getting your boss to do something ... make him think that it's his idea! If you can do this with your dog training, you're gold.
Great advice!

That is absolutely true about a dog being "stuborn", but it sure does feel like that sometimes. (Then when I think about it, I realize it wass his trainer!)
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