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Old 12-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Keep a leash on! I still keep one on mine and she is 16 months old now!

Think about it this way, she was probably having a blast when she was biting and playing with you. That is how puppies play. You interrupted her, and forced her to stop. That's probably creating conflict between you two. With a leash, you can still accomplish the goal of giving her a time out, but take out the direct conflict. I always want to try to have as little frustration and conflict between me and my pup as possible.

I'm no expert on dogs, but my dog only recently completely understood timeouts as a consequence to her behavior, and she is 16 months old! They are surprisingly dim in many aspects that humans are accustomed to (for example, the association between action and consequences). Time outs when she was younger was more for my sanity than hers. Just keep at it, and SOME day she WILL get it, even if it takes till 16 months.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I have to say, I thought the idea of "timeouts" for CHILDREN was the dumbest thing ever. It's actually just a cool off period before you actually strangle your kid. In my day, we swatted their behinds and sent them to their rooms. Now PUPPIES are being subjected to this?!?!? How on earth is a pup supposed to understand this when the majority of human toddlers and children (who understand our language, BTW) do not??

I'm sorry, but you don't have a pup with mental problems. You have a pup that's frustrated. Her needs are not being met. She needs more physical and mental stimulation. Who wants to be penned up when she was just having fun?? She doesn't see the issue with what she was doing. She's being bossy (you'll find a GSD under that definition), and telling you that she's not done, and she does NOT want to be picked up. I'll bet that more of the reason for her reaction is her being amped up and then you're probably upset from being bitten, and she feels that tension. For you to come towards her to pick her up with that vibe coming from you... she's wanting to protect herself. I'd bet that's more of the reason than "don't end the fun".

When she's getting too 'over the top' for you, then it's time for a walk. If you can't do a walk, then play two ball. If you can't do that, then get out some treats and do obedience. The best way to end a rowdy play session is to end it with something she'll be rewarded for. Once you start challenging your pup, you're setting yourself up for failure. One of these days, if you get into it with her she will win. I have an alpha male, and I have limited the rough housing I will do with him. Mainly because he was biting enough without me ramping him up further. Nearly every puppy 'problem' is actually a handler error. You have to step back, look for the changes on YOUR end that came before the changes on the pup's end. You have to stop trying to be the 'boss' of her and become her partner, her teacher. Grim will still grab and try the biting thing at 5 months. I think the 'gentle' was my life saver. He now cares what I think, and listens when I am unhappy with him. Yes, the first two months were filled with lots of bites, punctures, bleeding, scabs and bruises. He's through it now. *Most* behavioral problems in pups can be solved with an increase in exercise. So please ditch the punishment. The pup is confused, and upset that playtime has ended and you're unhappy because she was doing what come natural to her. I got on the floor with Grim and I took my bites. Not that I didn't try to redirect, because I did. However, he was more interested in me than in the toys. The landshark phase is not for the faint of heart! However, you'll make it through it. When the pup is tired, give some yummy treat and some things to chew on and put her in her crate or kennel. Not punishment, but needed rest time for a pup. However, make certain that her exercise needs are met before you do this. Your pup would be fine with sleet. There's pretty much no type of weather (except tornadoes and the like) that would be enough to not take a pup out for a walk. They really need it. Lots of links on here for help. There was a great article on dominant dogs that I think should have been stickied. It deals with why physically challenging them is a bad idea, and how to mentally maintain your leadership with your dog as your partner. Good luck!

Last edited by Jag; 12-21-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Is someone home with your pup all day? How often do you crate when it's not timeout for behavioral challenges? It's easy to forget that pups are baby dogs and all babies need and want frequent naps.

Some pups know they have four legs and want to use them rather than being carried frequently.

How often do you reward your pup for good behavior? It's easy to fall into a pattern of correcting unwanted behavior and forgetting to reward desired behaviors.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PorkandBeans View Post
It got really bad tonight. Every play session ends in a timeout because she gets too rowdy even if we're playing something like fetch that's really low key.

I'm starting to think she has some kind of mental problem. When I picked her up the ears went down, the lip curled and she started biting my hands hard. I would've taken her on a leash like was mentioned before but she just had a bath an hour before and we didn't have her collar back on yet. Plus I don't want to have to put a leash on my dog just so it won't aggressively attack me when I want to pick her up.

She didn't get a walk today because it's a sleet storm outside so we played in the house...and she ended up needing a timeout because she was skirting around the toys again to bite our arms and feet.

I don't know what else to do. The timeouts don't seem to be sinking in, I don't think she understands why she's getting the timeout even though we promptly take her to her playpen when she continues to bite too hard. We have a puppy class tomorrow and I'll ask the trainers for advice but I'm really worried there is some kind of mental issue.
Very very doubtful that your puppy is anything except a normal little "landshark!".

Believe it or not, they do get over it!

My 5yo male GSD is still very mouthy and loves to take a "chomp" as he goes by us every now and then, BUT the difference is that now he knows "bite inhibition" and never uses any force - just mouthing! And he only does it to family and a couple of his old friends!

We finally learned that the key is teaching him bite inhibition as NOTHING we did or tried would stop his mouthing; so we taught him that he had to learn not to bite but only mouthing with no tooth pressure was ok.

Best thing that worked was a loud "OW" and stop doing whatever we were doing with him.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Best thing that worked was a loud "OW" and stop doing whatever we were doing with him.
This actually does work a lot, the last thing your dog wants to do is hurt you. when kane, my older wgsd was a pup, he was pretty bad landshark. I couldnt even pet my pup. BUT, everything started changing with more exercise. try the "OW" method and try to exercise your dog a bit more, whether is a mental or physical workout. As she grows older, you're going to figure out what are the activities that drain her energy the most.
And by the way, kane didnt like to get picked up either as a pup, so instead of forcing a bad situation, I just didnt pick him up. It wont affect your relationship with your dog if you dont pick her up. Kane is 2 and a half, weighing 85 lbs and now he wants to lay on my lap (i actually noticed this change of behavior at 10-11 months)
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:11 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Get yourself some gloves and a leash.

Nothings is mentally wrong with the puppy it's all just a big misunderstanding.

You have to tire her out ALL THE TIME.

This is a large breed, stop picking her up.

I do rough house with my boy, but it is a game that I enjoy too, and I have way more energy than he does( I do cheat though 3 cups of coffee plus coca cola all day). I run him, walk him, run him some more, toss the toy, tug the toy, toss the toy some more. After about an hour he just wants chill out in his crate and chew on some rawhide treats. I can see it in his eyes though...thinking to himself..."one day I'm not gonna get tired, you'll see!".

I anxiously await the day!

Little does he know he has doggy parks in his future for when that day comes.

Sometimes he let's me know when he doesn't want go through the regimen I do outdoors, after he goes potty, he gives me the "let's do some obedience instead look", and refuses to leave the lawn!
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag View Post
I have to say, I thought the idea of "timeouts" for CHILDREN was the dumbest thing ever. It's actually just a cool off period before you actually strangle your kid. In my day, we swatted their behinds and sent them to their rooms. Now PUPPIES are being subjected to this?!?!? How on earth is a pup supposed to understand this when the majority of human toddlers and children (who understand our language, BTW) do not??
And that is exactly why I put my puppy up briefly when she is particularly monstrous..... so that I don't strangle the little darling! 5 minutes in a crate, while I get myself collected, gather leash and toys, and take her outside to de-energize.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:10 AM   #28 (permalink)
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top tips.

1) BITE INHIBITION! teach your dog the right amount of pressure to assert. Do not try teaching this while your god is in hyper-mode (rough housing), when your dog is relaxed on her bed, go over and give her a little stroke, let her lick and mouth your hands, if she bites too hard, remove your hand and say "AHH AH!" wait a few seconds and then slowly give her your hand again, repeat over and over each day, until she knows how hard she can bite you and how hard she can bite a tug toy. a good way to do this is use the tug toy either straight after, or right before she is allowed to mouth your hand. she will catch on pretty quick as to how hard is ok.

2) EXERCISE. give her lots of it, make sure she is constantly tired. as has been mentioned, let her run it out on the beach, or a field. dont run her along the pavement. my dog was 16 weeks yesterday and she needs a **** of a lot of exercise, otherwise she starts biting sleeves, shoes, hands, whatever she can get her mouth around. But if she is well exercised, she is very well behaved. I take her on 2, 30 minute walks per day, but recently have been throwing in some ball chasing on the local field for 30-40 mins as well, because 30 mins walk twice per day is simple not enough.

3) MENTAL STIMULATION! Spend 30 mins teach obedience, make sure it is a challenge for you pup, and when I say a challenge, dont say "Go and find me a red hat, and orange set of gloves, and a blue pair of trousers, and earn the money to pay for them part timing at the local grocery store" Challenge your puppy by teaching her new commands for example "go to bed" teach the puppy to go into her crate on her own, and then reward that behaviour. once the puppy grasps the idea, asign a command to it, once you have a number of different commands your puppy knows, scroll through them in an obedience lesson, making sure to make it difficult for your pup, this will be a good mental work out. have you ever had such a hard mentally exhausting day that you feel physically exhausted?

4) DO ROUGH HOUSE! You puppy wants to play with you, let her. in shutzhund training, we work the dog into a highly excited stage and once there, we remove them from the situation, the next time they see the sleeve, they are desperate to get their jaws around it. you have to use the opposite technique. let the dog get bored of rough housing with you. Your currently removing her from the situation at the top of her excitement level, thus the next time she gets into the state of mind of rough housing, she remembers all of that pent up excitement. if you let her get bored of rough housing, she will be less excited the next time she does it. As someone else mentioned, make it suck for her, make her always 'Loose', by moving your hand out the way and knocking her off balance, she will get sick of it eventually.


I think we are all paranoid of something being "wrong" with our pets, either physically or mentally, and we panic when something seems to confirm those worries, but honestly i do not believe your pup has mental issues.
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Last edited by Marc; 12-21-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:14 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
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top tips.

, we work the dog into a highly excited stage and once there, we remove them from the situation, the next time they see the sleeve, they are desperate to get their jaws around it. you have to use the opposite technique. let the dog get bored of rough housing with you. Your currently removing her from the situation at the top of her excitement level, thus the next time she gets into the state of mind of rough housing, she remembers all of that pent up excitement. if you let her get bored of rough housing, she will be less excited the next time she does it. As someone else mentioned, make it suck for her, make her always 'Loose', by moving your hand out the way and knocking her off balance, she will get sick of it eventually.
Great tip on how to build value for something with your Puppy too! like that tug toy of hers!
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