For anyone still in the Landshark phase - E-COLLAR! - Page 8 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Or my thought is that maybe the prongs aren't actually making contact with the skin.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #72 (permalink)
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FWIW, I've heard that tying a dead chicken to the dog's neck really does work, but I've never tried it. I'd probably go to an ecollar before I did that.
No. It's not.
FWIW, if you plan to have free roaming chickens you'd better have a secure yard or a breed known for protecting it's flock rather than herding them.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:34 PM   #73 (permalink)
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What's the sense in walking him? was one of the first posts about it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:50 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RocketDog View Post
Or my thought is that maybe the prongs aren't actually making contact with the skin.
yes, that is totally possible as well. But I think it really needs to be emphasized that 55 is NOT a normal level to be using an e-collar, especially on a puppy. The problem with using extremely high levels is that people who have not used an e-collar might have a hard time really understanding and reading what is an appropriate level. All the OP knows is at those super high levels the dog yelps and stops the behavior...
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:52 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:16 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default after re-reading the OP and also the thread that Jean posted I just want to say that it seems OP has been taught to train in much more "old-school" methods and this is what he will resort to. I'm not judging this, but it makes sense.

This quote here "So... here's the thing... I know I can't really correct him yet. I have his six month birthday circled on my calender, believe me. Can't wait until I can start asserting my will on a walk for a change. But meantime, I think he is learning bad habits and creating bad patterns that are just going to make things harder when we get to real training." is really distubing to me.

It's fine if you think getting shocked by a 9V battery is less painful than getting PROPERLY CORRECTED by a prong, but I would personally prefer the prong. I've never made my dog squeal, shut down, or anything else negative with a prong. We have an amazing relationship and my dog will do anything for me. I don't doubt that this dog might be doing just fine on the ecollar and its not killing his drive, but it would be nice to actually see it. I've licked a 9V battery once in my life, and just because it didn't kill me doesn't make it something I would do to my dog. If that's the feeling you're shocking your dog with, sorry, IMO its way too much.

I'm not going to question OP's abilities as a handler or trainer, but it just sounds like its a bit more oldschool and a bit outdated. I don't mind giving a hard, physical correction to my dog when he blows me off. But I would never in a million years subject my dog to that kind of discomfort (9V shock) over something he doesn't understand/know yet. This dog didn't understand he couldn't bark at/chase cars, and in training he was definitely subjected to unncessary pain because of it.

I've learned to accept that ecollars are a tool...but the way OP described using his is completely wrong and inhumane. I'd love to see this dog a few months from now if this continues. And sorry OP if you feel ripped or attacked...but posting your experience as a public service announcement so that others can benefit from your method that is still unproven and untested is just wrong. I would be shocked if some of the "ecollar experts" we have on this forum would ever approve of the way you have trained your dog.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:23 PM   #77 (permalink)
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My 2cents (and it probably won't make me popular

I have no problem with one using an e collar as long as they are using it properly.
I have never used one, I have never needed to use one

My opinion is, using an e collar on a dog that's less than a year old, tells me that the owner hasn't done their job in properly training the dog. It's really not that hard to train a puppy/young dog especially a gsd if you know what your doing.

I see to many people ill equipped for this breed and I see it on this very forum all the time.

I guess I've just been lucky that all the gsd's I've had/have were pretty easy trainers, atleast in my mind they were

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Old 12-17-2012, 08:57 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I'm really not interested in having arguments online, so I won't be posting here much, but a few valid questions were raised, so let me try to address them:
  • The Title of the Thread

People read it differently than I intended. My point wasn't that the e-collar stops all landshark behavior.
  • Why six months?

It isn't that I expected my dog to be out of the landshark phase in six months. It was that many people I respect taught me that you should be careful not to administer corrections to a dog prior to six months because you don't want to inhibit drive. I can assure you that this dog has plenty of drive, and gets along fine in the house. He does not live in a "world of No." I didn't get the collar to shock him into submission. I got it to stop dangerous behavior in a way that makes sense.
  • Using a prong collar is more humane than using an e-collar.

If you honestly believe this, you either havn't ever looked at both corrections, or you are out of your ever-lovin' mind. Let me put a prong collar on you and give it one hard jerk, and you'll never do it to your dog again. It is a lot more inhumane than a simple nick with an e-Collar. I've done the e-collar on myself as a test. I wouldn't do the prong collar as a test in a million years.
  • Why are you using 55 as a stim level. That's too high!

Anyone who says that is ignorant, and either did not read my OP, or can't read for comprehension past a third grade level. Let me walk you through this again: I started at a stim of 1. I would hit the nick button and watch for a reaction. When I got nothing, I moved it up 1 and tried again. This took several minutes, with lots of pauses in between. I got the reaction when I hit 55. The reaction, btw, was not a yelp, or a start or any of that. He simply looked down at the ground puzzled.

Let me repeat: at 54, there was no reaction at all. At 55, he looked down at the ground. Telling me I should be at a stim of 20 just shows your total ignorance. Every dog is different. Some have thick fur... some have thin... some feel things easily, others don't. There is no "starting point" for an e-collar. When I read things like this, I know I am dealing with someone who really doesn't want to understand what is going on.

Finally, I am going to repeat the bottom line again for those who may have missed it: My pup's doing fine. He is the same as he has always been around me. This hasn't decreased his drive, made him skittish, or in any way changed our relationship -- except for one very important thing: he gets to do all sorts of fun things now.

Just today we went to a friend's house that has a farm where he was running around and having a great time -- something I would have never done before. He gets more walks now, more car rides, and generally has a better life. I also haven't nicked him in days -- because he changed his bad behavior.

You all act like I have some sniveling pup who is obeying out of fear. This is so far from the truth it is laughable.

As far as all of those who say: "Well, I have had dogs with high drive before, and I never needed an e-collar." This is snobbish at best and ignorant at worst. The e-collar doesn't have to be an admission that I failed as a trainer and a line of last resort. It is simply another tool. Is using a "gentle leader" harness a failure on the part of the owner? Or a prong collar?

And, as I said in my OP, my first GSD had high drive. He was the son of a Sch III father and a Sch II mother. Excellent lines. High Drive. He was great and easy to train. (Except for dog aggression, but that was something different.)

This guy is different. I thought Rook had a strong drive... but Ninja makes him look like a slacker. Dogs are different. If you can't believe that, than I really don't need to discuss anything with you any more because you have shown me what you truly are after here... and I'm not getting involved in it...
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:03 PM   #79 (permalink)
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So what else are you doing as far as training your high drive pup? IS there an outlet that he can excel with his 'high drive'
Or are you just suppressing him?
Anywhere else you go on a discussion forum with your opening post will get the same reaction, maybe post this on the WDF or PDB...I bet you won't find different opinions on this subject.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:09 PM   #80 (permalink)
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With so many "ignorant" people here, I can't imagine you'd want to stay long anyway
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