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Old 12-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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In other words, typical GSD puppy behavior. One of the many reasons why people say "just because you want it, doesn't mean you should have it" and "these dogs are not for everyone". Poor pups.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well, I do think there is a tendency today for people to get Ferraris when they are used to driving Volvos..everyone wants a high drive working dog then gets overwhelmed by what would be considered normal behavior.

That and some of the stuff coming out of BYBs where there may be no knowledge of what happens when you combine the lines improperly etc. Perhaps I guess could result in something not typical with normal working line dogs from police service backgrounds. I guess...what are the pedigrees on these wild crazy pups? Are they normal or some funky weird aberration? I was about to throttle my dog at 7 months but I felt he was normal for a high drive working bred dog, and patience and consistency won out.

My guess is these pups are "normal". I could not have raised my current dog without some external help as well as some history with working dogs. He is a real handful but I had the right resources to help me in getting where I need to be in a non confrontational manner and without harsh correction.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'd be curious too, as well as curious to know what has been tried.
As in another thread/s, the person had slapped muzzle, stuck fist down throat, squeeze muzzle, squirt with squirt bottle, etc.

Just as, before chalking a dog up to "food aggressive" when the only thing that has been done is stick your hand in the dog's bowl.

I firmly believe the way you interact with your dog can make a budding problem better, or worse, depending on what you do and how you handle it.

If owners are making their dogs worse, instead of curing said problem, by their actions, how is it fair to haul out a shock collar, when it was a training issue to begin with, never properly addressed?

That is - why punish the dog for 1) being a dog and 2) doing something you caused to happen? (biting harder for instance)
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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That's what I love about the internet... everyone's an expert...

Without knowing a thing about me, my methods, my dog, or anything... some of you have made judgments about me -- even to the point that I guess some think I shouldn't even own a GSD!

Must be nice to be so opinionated, and not be troubled by those fact thingies...

That's OK though. Because I figured there would be plenty of "I'm a better trainer/owner than you" bigots come out of the woodwork. There always are. I didn't make the post for you anyway -- since clearly no one can tell you a thing about GSDs that you don't already know...

But for the rest of you, read up, study it, and don't be afraid to add it to your toolbag. It works.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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How many obedience classes have you taken with your dog?
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Mark, I don't know what you've tried.
My posts are posted to help others understand to try different training methods before chalking your dog up to a hoodlum and shocking it.

What I read in other posts is there's not really many dogs out there who are so incorrigible as to need e-collars to train them, nothing else will work.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Is this thread any different than the one that got locked recently? Lou hasn't chimed in yet.....
This post perfectly sum's up every e-collar thread:
Quote:
BUT to anyone thinking of getting one, please PLEASE for the sake of you and your dog, make sure you research them THOROUGHLY!!! so that you can use it correctly, and you dog can get the idea.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You know I find it funny how many people seem to think that because someone went out and got an e collar they must be a horrible dog owner. That the e collar is a last resort tool. It is not. Any training tool can be used in an abusive way especially with a new dog owner who has no idea on the how to when it comes to dog training. When I say tools I am talking about regular collars, leashes, halti tops, prong collars, slip collars, and any other type of training devices that can be used on any dog. I see the e collar as a tool nothing more and nothing less. What I like about the e collar is the fact that it is hands free operation during training unlike using a leash and collar. It is operated using a remote. People constantly say you need to put your pup in classes. It seems like that is a answer to all the questions and training problems people might have with their dog. They can learn to be better from the classes and experience new methods but there is no guarantee that any particular method is going to work the same on every dog.

Today you will see a HUGE number of positive reinforcement only trainers and that positive reinforcement is the only way to go along with clicker training. I believe it takes a combination of things depending on the individual dog and owner. Classes are great to take but it is not going to take care of everything either. Also, depending on the individual dog trainer methods count too...

One fact I want to bring up with many of the positive reinforcement only trainers and classes many of these trainers will not allow you to use a choke/slip collar, prong collar, or e collar on the dogs. Other trainers will. I had to go visit classes and talk to the trainers one on one with a list of questions before I signed up. I find not allowing collars and corrections to be ridiculous and not every trainer out there is a good trainer. I had to dig around to find a good one in my area. If someone wants to get an e collar, research how to use it properly, and then train their dog with it themselves good for them. Everyone has said make sure you learn how to use it properly and if you need to seek an experienced trainer then by all means do it.

An e collar is a choice of training tools to train a dog with. If someone decides that is what they want to use regardless of classes or other methods they have that right. My only concern is to make sure they learn how to use ANY training tool correctly.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayleeGSD View Post
One fact I want to bring up with many of the positive reinforcement only trainers and classes many of these trainers will not allow you to use a choke/slip collar, prong collar, or e collar on the dogs. Other trainers will.
I would like to point out that while this is true, the same goes for other trainers who choose to use things like a prong. I had to buy a prong for my dog to go to a class that was held at the local GSD club. I went once and that was enough, because what I saw made me sick. There was not one dog in that room that would be considered not reactive. They had muzzles on most of them. The teacher had to put me on the other side of the room. So if this is the result of training methods other then positive or even positive with some corrections then NO THANK YOU.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayleeGSD View Post
Today you will see a HUGE number of positive reinforcement only trainers and that positive reinforcement is the only way to go along with clicker training. I believe it takes a combination of things depending on the individual dog and owner. Classes are great to take but it is not going to take care of everything either. ...
Why do you think there are such a huge number of positive trainers? Some of these trainers have been training for years and have used other methods, but switched to positive..why is that? Positive training can take care of everything if a person puts the time and effort into it. I'm not against prongs or e collars, but I prefer not to use them. I haven't ever had a need for them. And to use them on a puppy is not a good option. Training is life long, puppies need to be puppies before they can be dogs.
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