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Existential Sprinkling Problem

8K views 50 replies 22 participants last post by  NNorthern 
#1 ·
Existential, as in relating to existence. If we cannot correct this, he is gone (to another home).

Our GSD just turned 8 months. He is a male, and fairly well trained. He has never had an accident in the house or in his bed. Never, not a single one. When he has to relieve himself, he lets us know and we send him out. Since we got him at 12 weeks, we have not had a problem with that.

The problem is the sprinkling. In a variety of circumstances, he will just spontaneously spray a stream of urine onto the floor. He does not squat, or anything like that. It appears to be entirely unintentional.

It mostly happens when he is exited or conflicted. For example, he wants to run out the door, and I am commanding him to get in his pen. When he pauses for that moment before obeying, he will spray a couple seconds of pee on the floor. I will not be near him, and he is not acting crazy or sullen, just standing eagerly looking out the door.

Also happens when I hold his collar because a cat or dog is walking by, but not always. He will be standing stock still, whining just a little, and a little pee will spray out. Also happens when we first get home after being away for a few hours. I think that is just excitement.

He has not been beaten, and this is not fear. Ears and tail do not go down, and he does not crouch. It is just, I don't know, conflicted emotions.

It is exceedingly annoying, as he is about 70 lbs now and 2 seconds of pee is a real mess. It is also keeping him from developing a close relationship with the family as he cannot he loose in the house and around us for fear of this happening. We bought one of these, , but keeping that on him all the time is not practical, and you might get sprayed while you put it on him.

Is this something that just goes away? If so, how long does it take? If it is not gone, and soon, he will have to go. Any help is appreciated.
 
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#3 ·
If the problem has just developed recently you may want to have your vet check him over for any bladder problems. If he has been doing this since he was a puppy, then it does sound like excitement urination. Also if he is not neutered, he could be marking his territory, like when he does it when another dog goes by. I suggest you try searching the forum for threads on the topic. Hopefully you will get some good advice from other posters.
 
#4 ·
if it's not medical, it could very well be submissive peeing, or excited peeing. He doesn't even realize he's doing it.

Will it go away ? no one can answer that if it's not a medical thing.

It's really sad to hear that because the dog has a problem if not resolved, he's gone:(
But maybe he'd be much better off in another home.
 
#5 ·
"Existential, as in relating to existence. If we cannot correct this, he is gone (to another home) "
" and I am commanding him to get in his pen. When he pauses for that moment before obeying, he will spray a couple seconds of pee on the floor"

OUCH that is harsh. Young dog , with a handler sensitive , somewhat submissive streak , and a handler unaware, frustrated, who is using the thread to vent , not to find an answer, his fate already with a "you're out of here" for something that is ""It appears to be entirely unintentional." because it is .
"I will not be near him, and he is not acting crazy or sullen, just standing eagerly looking out the door" .. you don't have to be . Dogs are so sensitive to subtleties , read us well -- your overbearing goes to him , he freezes, door/out not an option, freeze , sprinkle from the pressure and tension - submit, go to crate.

Conflict is fear .
"It is also keeping him from developing a close relationship with the family as he cannot he loose in the house and around us for fear of this happening"


I would be inclined to say to you .... do rehome the dog .

'
Let him be with someone who appreciates the good in him, who is more in tune with him - a totaly different dog may emerge. Looks like this dog and you are not a good match.

by the way I would be curious how you train / trained/ intend to train this dog. Just the wording -- you stand there and command the dog -- why not assist the dog and bring him to the crate, take the decision away from the dog, no conflict, no need to avoid, no need for you to exert so much super authority .

got to add that even your name I shoot friendlies ishootfrendlies wow.
 
#6 ·
If you have had the dog for five months, and you can consider getting rid of him for such a minor issue, then you probably are not well matched with this dog. No bond. It is probably better for you to give the dog back to the breeder.

The very fact that this is such a big deal to you will probably make the problem take longer to resolve.

Excited or submissive urination is not really the dog's fault. They do outgrow it if you do not over-react and punish them for it. Even becoming frustrated will make this take longer to clear up.
 
#15 ·
Agree. I didn't read the whole thread. My boy Axel did this..for a long time. He will be 2 in February, and it hasn't happened now for about 6 months... they do not realize they are even doing it. why on earth would you ditch your dog for this? Hes a dog. They do things like this.. maybe you shouldn't have a dog if you get so upset cleaning up a little pee... there is poo to pick up too....

(I really hope the mods dont kick me out for being blunt again...:( )
 
#7 ·
I agree rehoming is likely the best solution. He won't get better at this point, since you've already decided he's gone if it doesn't stop and also the fact you "command" him around.

He may improve in a new environment but only if they ignore the peeing so be honest with them and direct them to the links I provided.

This doesn't sound like a good match between dog and owner.
BTW I was looking at your old posts, did you get this dog from a breeder? Do they require you return him?
 
#8 ·
Just a head's up, coming onto a forum like this and saying that "the dog is gone" if he doesn't knock off something you yourself say is unintentional is not going to get you any sort of answer you want to hear (doubly so with that user name). Judging by your post, it sounds like your dog is insecure and fearful and not sure what his place is, and it sounds like he's fearful of you. Rehome the dog; you don't have any sort of bond with him and that is the really only thing that will get him past submissive/excited urination.

A dog doesn't need to be beaten to be fearful of someone. He does not see you as his leader or caregiver. The fact that you are jumping to rehoming without even consulting a vet to rule out a medical reason says enough about your relationship with the dog.
 
#9 ·
It's kind of like a divorce anyway, merely saying the word and getting comfortable with it in your head is a pretty good sign it will happen.

If I hear from people (we have a rescue) that they want to get rid of the dog, it's usually a done deal with everything except the actual act.
If it's going to happen anyway - do it sooner than later so hopefully a rescue can work with his issues :(
 
#10 ·
I was unaware the word command was such a hot button. I am telling him to do something. Not sure what I should call it. "Sit, stay, heel, leave it," etc I have always heard referred to as commands. If it would make it more comfortable, I will refer to those things as suggestions. You can read that offending line as " For example, he wants to run out the door, and I am suggesting that he get in his pen"

I like this dog a lot and would like to keep him. We get along very well, and he is happy and well adjusted. We clean up the pee and do not make a big deal. He is not afraid. He will be standing, making eye contact, with erect ears and a wagging tail, and shoot a little stream of pee. It almost always occurs when he is being "suggested" to do something he does not want to do.

An example just occurred. My 3 year old niece was here and was walking to the car. I had Chaias (daughter picked the name) outside with me as they left. He wanted to run over and play, but she is a little afraid of him so I "suggested" him to lay down beside me, which he promptly did, with a little squirt of pee.

It is great, really. He clearly wants to go over, but with just a quiet "suggestion", he restrains himself and lays down. He actually was shivering a little as he watched her walk by, a couple feet away, he was so exited. The pee did not come then, though, but only when he had to restrain himself. By the way, we did have him checked for a UTI, and he was fine.

Anyway, I thought I might get a little help here. I appreciate the one or two people who offered good advice. If anyone else has a dog that has been like this or has some ideas on how to minimize it, I would love to hear them.
 
#13 ·
Well that is encouraging. Ours is more than a dribble though, it is a full on squirt. It is not from fear or submission, and I really don't think he knows it is happening. I guess that sounds similar to yours. Did your dog know, or do you think it was involuntary?

If he has been doing this since he was a puppy, then it does sound like excitement urination. Also if he is not neutered, he could be marking his territory, like when he does it when another dog goes by.
It has been going on since he was a puppy. It is less frequent now, but when he does it, it is a larger amount. How old do they have to be to mark territory? He has not shown much interest in that so far.
 
#12 ·
"Existential, as in relating to existence. If we cannot correct this, he is gone (to another home)" is how we are introduced to your predicament.

"It is exceedingly annoying, as he is about 70 lbs now and 2 seconds of pee is a real mess. It is also keeping him from developing a close relationship with the family as he cannot he loose in the house and around us for fear of this happening"

Rather contradictory then to say "
I like this dog a lot and would like to keep him. We get along very well, and he is happy and well adjusted. We clean up the pee and do not make a big deal"

Seems he is in a conflicted state enough to annoy you with his nervous expression of urine . Being banished because you are annoyed is not the picture of a cozy home.
 
#16 ·
my mom has a 12 y/o dachshund that has issues excitement/submissive peeing. she is also neurotic and won't walk around things or on hard/slick floors. you learn what causes it and how to avoid it. you don't just give up on your dog.

and i don't think people here have an issue with the word 'command' as much as the phrase 'when i am commanding him'. a better phrasing would be 'when i give him a command such as sit, stay, or down...'
 
#17 ·
here is your proof that the dog is not incontinent " He has never had an accident in the house or in his bed. Never, not a single one. When he has to relieve himself, he lets us know and we send him out. Since we got him at 12 weeks, we have not had a problem with that."

here is your proof that it is situational - as you said when excited or conflicted " it is a full on squirt. It is not from fear or submission, and I really don't think he knows it is happening. I guess that sounds similar to yours. Did your dog know, or do you think it was involuntary?"

sorry it is from submission out of ANXIETY . saw a program about the night fighters , WW 2 airmen that got a nervous bladder just before going out for their missions and they would have a ritual of having their nerve piss just outside the plane . No different than going out to some competitive trial and visiting the bathroom for the upteenth time.
 
#18 ·
I totally agree with Carmen's post above..

How do you "know" it's not from submission/fear ? Did he tell you? Since you don't know why it's happening I don't think you "know" that it isn't from x or x.

As suggested, get a full vet work up first..If this is a behavior you don't want to deal with maybe it's best you return him to the breeder or rehome him
 
#19 ·
take him out more often. you know when he pees in what
situation. take him before the situation arises or take him out
as soon as the situation arises. how long ago was the Vet check
and what did the Vet do? what test did the Vet do? did the Vet
do any blood work, check urine samples or stool samples?
 
#20 ·
my dog has this problem, but its only when she meets new people. i am hoping she will grow out of it, but if she doesnt, i will just keep cleaning it up, i wont rehome her though.

whats reward do you offer your dog when he obey's his command?

the reason I ask this is that GSD's very much want to please their owners. If he is faced with a situation where he wants to go outside, but he also wants to do what you say, he has an internal conflict, and may pee "oh no what do I do??? I wanna do both!!!.... oh crap... I peed.". however if you tip the scales in your favour, by offering him great rewards such as treats and praise, there will be a lot less conflict when it comes to obeying you, and he may not pee so often.
 
#22 ·
I think the OP wants us to tell him "yes, it's the dog, he's got poor nerves" or whatever, when we know it's the OP and how he's presenting himself to the dog.
I've owned dogs my entire life and I've never used the phrase "command them to do something".

I "tell" my dogs, "go lay down" or whatever, but the fact you're also asking this dog to do things that make him nervous (laying down in strange/new situations is stressful to them) and he's reacting by urinating, is extremely telling.

What you've got here is a bunch of very experienced dog people telling you, you're mishandling the dog, and this is his reaction.

I gave you the links to help you get a new mindset about your dog.
Without that new mindset and change of how you're interacting with your dog, this dog will be one that "sprinkles" his entire life.

I know this because we got a Dachshund that, at 6yrs., still urinated then cowered. It was obvious his owners had mishandled the excited/submissive peeing from the moment he did it, and when he passed at 10yrs. old, if he ever thought he was in trouble, he'd still pee a bit. We let him out frequently so his bladder would be less full...but he still did it.

So you've got to understand that it's you, and how you're dealing with this dog, how you're asking him to do things, if you're asking him to do things that are making him nervous and uncomfortable - I suspect a combo of both - and you've got to rearrange that and do things differently or else give up the dog.

Since you're arguing and saying it's nothing you're doing, this is looking a bit grim.

Hire a good trainer to show you how to work with the dog, as others suggested. Or return him to the breeder or find a rescue for him. A rescue can assess him and get him in a home where he'll feel less conflicted.
 
#24 ·
I think the OP wants us to tell him "yes, it's the dog, he's got poor nerves" or whatever, when we know it's the OP and how he's presenting himself to the dog.
I've owned dogs my entire life and I've never used the phrase "command them to do something".
that is very unfair of you to assume what we (over the internet nonetheless) will tell a person what they want of their dog. "command" is the same as "tell" what is the difference one way or another the dog does what you ask of it?

Main Entry: tell  [tel]
Part of Speech: verb Definition: communicate Synonyms: acquaint, advise, announce, apprise, authorize, bid, break the news, call upon, clue in, command ...

why argue semantics anyway, the issue at hand is the peeing. OP has gotten very good advice. ignore the dog, increase bond, and build confidence, that is what he needs to be told, whether or not he wants to get rid of the dog is his own accord.
 
#23 ·
Im not an expert and might not be much help but here goes anyways.

You said that you would want him to go in his cage and he would want to go out. Then he would pee a little then get in the cage.What I would do in this situation is. Leash him up and take him out right before you want to cage him. When out wait for him to potty and when he does reward him with a treat and praise him. Then take him back in still on a leash to his cage and lure him in with a treat and only give it when he goes in.

The other time he got excited when the girl was walking by to get in the car. I would have him down and then drop a bunch of treats in front of him so it takes awile to eat all of them. If the girl is not in the car and he shifts his focus back to her drop more treats down until she is in and leaving.

I just think this would work because he would want the treat and he wouldnt be so conflicted.
 
#25 ·
I'm sorry, but I really have to say that Carmen's posts (carmspack for the OP) are spot on. Spot.freaking.on.

So many times people unintentionally send off vibes--they are completely unaware of how they affect their dog. I have a good friend with a fear-aggressive dalmation mix. She is a highly educated person, and loves her dog very much. But the signals she sends to this dog......woweee. Seriously. If you talk to her, she has a rational conversation about all the right things to do, but it's a completely different world when she's actually with and around the dog. To the point that the dog has already bit several people. It's too bad she won't rehome the dog, because she doesn't see the problems, and is a liability just waiting. It's not a question of if, it's when.

Please, please, please--just for a second, consider that carmen might be right. You want a resolution, right? If what you're doing isn't working, consider listening to someone with years of experience.
 
#30 ·
sorry, it is not at all unfair. The very first sentence tells you that this person is very upset with the dog doing this and his welcome in this home is wearing out - there is an ultimatum - he's out of here , if he doesn't shape up . Boy there's no tension there.
Later he goes on to say that they are so upset with the dog that he is pretty well banished "to Coventry". So do you think that there is not emotion so thick it is palpable and the dog cannot feel it . Dogs by the way are very sensitive . This is avoidance. The dog is afraid to make a wrong decision so freezes , feels the pressure, voids.
But what is the owner doing all this time? Voice getting sterner, staring at dog , pointing to crate, when dog slinks in , door slams? How is that going to change behaviour. The dog is cowed.

Instead , go an get the dog. Be pleasant about it . Show him what you want, and praise .

Sometimes relationships go sideways and there is no getting into the good.
 
#33 ·
Funny how so many Dog experts suck at communicating with people.

The guy is on the forum looking for help, which would indicate that he does want to keep his dog, but he's nearing his wits end and expressing it to us (humans). It's good to vent on the internet and not on the dog; which is what the OP is doing.

Lol at everyone that got on the OP's case for using the word "Commanding"...I mean really? Leading, Commanding, Telling, Ordering... straw man BS.

At least the OP has the right attitude find the 5 or 6 helpful post and move on as I'm sure he won't be re homing his dog because some self proclaimed dog experts say so on the internet with a condescending attitude.

Good luck with the submissive/excitement urination, my baby boy sprays all over when he meets new people, I don't sweat it as I'm sure he'll grow out of it. He is after all just a baby! =)
 
#38 ·
Funny how so many Dog experts suck at communicating with people.
I'm sure he won't be re homing his dog because some self proclaimed dog experts say so on the internet with a condescending attitude.
You might want to check the credentials of some of these posters, who have literally decades of owning, training and even breeding these dogs, before you go the condescending route yourself.
 
#34 ·
Well,he is old enough to mark his territory, but after your explained his behavior, that isn't what he is doing. I am sure it is frustrating to deal with, but from the other posts, I have gotten the impression that he will outgrow it if there is no stress put on him when he does it and you ignore the behavior. I do think that the suggestions that he be taken out to relieve himself more frequently especially before having him do something that triggers the peeing and also to diffuse the tension with treats for good behavior for promptly sitting, or whatever you told him to do. You may want to look into clicker training (there are some excellent threads on it) as that is low stress and totally positive.
 
#35 ·
So many times people unintentionally send off vibes--they are completely unaware of how they affect their dog.
This exactly.
Folks, I don't care that he used the word command. It's that he sees it as commanding the dog around, when you should be teaching the dog what you want, as carmen has said.

He could say "telecommunicate" for all I care - but it's the fact he does, indeed, "command" the dog, and apparently this dog is not a dog that can tolerate that, or there would not be a problem.

We can set aside all the arguments in the book about what words were used, and look at the dog.
The dog is having issues, because of how the owner is interacting with the dog.

The very first sentence tells you that this person is very upset with the dog doing this and his welcome in this home is wearing out - there is an ultimatum - he's out of here , if he doesn't shape up . Boy there's no tension there.
Exactly this.
 
#36 ·
Lets see, words don't matter.

Except the OP has been judged tried and convicted based on the words in the first statement. Hmmmm?

No one asked what kind of flooring the OP has or maybe I missed it.

It did occur to me though, their are people that may not want thousands of dollars worth of flooring/carpeting ruined.

Oh yeah, they shouldn't have dogs.

How about just helping with the peeing issue and forget about the personality assessment.

Just a thought.
 
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