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Old 12-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castlemaid View Post
Please go back and read Kyleigh's post - the advice is spot on!
I thought so too!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Shock collars were created to correct bad behaviour it IS a training method, so Kyleigh I don't think there is anything wrong with using one. You don't have to shock the dog at full blast, you don't have to shock at all you can use the sound button first as a warning. This is the fastest and the most consistant way to teach a dog if you don't have the patience and a lot of time to train them, or don't have money for professional trainer. Dogs learn almost instantly with shock collars on. You can't always train them other ways...If your dog runs in the backyard barking waking the neighborhs how are you going to "train" her to stop? will you be running around after her telling her to be quiet? Treats and redirecting don't always work unless maybe if you did it as full time job. Like I said earlier I use shock collar as last resort it is not a primary training method.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:52 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Julie - we are so obviously going to disagree ... I did NOT discount the e-collar! I even said I respected it as a training tool when used appropriately.

Your own words:

Quote:
This is the fastest and the most consistant way to teach a dog if you don't have the patience and a lot of time to train them, or don't have money for professional trainer
THIS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE METHOD OF TRAINING ... you don't have the patience or the time??? Really??? Before I say something else that might get me banned, I'll stop my comments right here.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:54 AM   #94 (permalink)
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This is the fastest and the most consistant way to teach a dog if you don't have the patience and a lot of time to train them, or don't have money for professional trainer.
I don't want to further derail this thread into an e-collar debate, we have plenty of those on the board already if people want to continue on that topic, but I think this comment needs to be addressed. E-collars are not a tool that should be used without some sort of professional assistance, and like any other method of training it does require some time and patience.

If you don't have the time or patience to train your dog, have little to no prior dog training experience, little to no knowledge about dog behavior, and don't want to find a trainer or enroll in an obedience class you really shouldn't have a dog.

Carry on. Great post, Kyleigh.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:59 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyleigh View Post
Julie - we are so obviously going to disagree ... I did NOT discount the e-collar! I even said I respected it as a training tool when used appropriately.

Your own words:



THIS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE METHOD OF TRAINING ... you don't have the patience or the time??? Really??? Before I say something else that might get me banned, I'll stop my comments right here.

Wow Kyleigh, really? So much heat... over what? Calm yourself Don't be so dramatic over nothing Have a nice day
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Kyleigh, great post. I hope the OP reads it in the manner with which it was intended and gets help from a qualified trainer.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #97 (permalink)
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I have trained with an ecollar. For some circumstances they are great tools. Not my preference to use one 100% but some do. They require impeccible timing and an ability to read the body language of the dog. In the right hands they are magic. In the wrong hands a disaster.

The simple task of redirecting has not been mastered here as the dog bites the OP to "get the toy" and the pup is allowed to pick things up from the ground. If the OP had already developed that sense of timing and ability to read her dog [and this is NOT a slam, these skills take time to develop] I would say maybe she is ready for an ecollar though we should note that not even Lou Castle, a known expert on ecollars and a strong advocate for their use, suggests using an ecollar to stop biting puppies.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:28 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
I have trained with an ecollar. For some circumstances they are great tools. Not my preference to use one 100% but some do. They require impeccible timing and an ability to read the body language of the dog. In the right hands they are magic. In the wrong hands a disaster.

The simple task of redirecting has not been mastered here as the dog bites the OP to "get the toy" and the pup is allowed to pick things up from the ground. If the OP had already developed that sense of timing and ability to read her dog [and this is NOT a slam, these skills take time to develop] I would say maybe she is ready for an ecollar though we should note that not even Lou Castle, a known expert on ecollars and a strong advocate for their use, suggests using an ecollar to stop biting puppies.
Yes of course thats why you have to watch your dogs reactions to it.

Exactly, if OP is already losing her mind with the dog I mean lets face it their bites HURT, imagine if they hurt your child.... that is unacceptable behavior and need to be corrected immidietely and IF you can't stop the behavior then shock collar is definately a good choice because it does fix the problem and fast too. you can't ALWAYS use conventional methods of training. I think sometimes people get carried away with thinking about dogs that they forget about humans in this cas the OP...I really do feel sorry for her ...if my dog would bite me I would do whatever it takes to stop her... if she bites me today she can bite somebody else tomorrow even though its playful biting. OP, dont give up it will get better!!!
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #99 (permalink)
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It's not about reading reactions to the corrections, it is about watching body language to predict behavior and therefore TIME the corrections appropriately. The proper use of an e-collar requires behavioral knowledge, foundation training to have been consistent and effective, and the kind of timing that one only gets from being instructed by an expert in person.

Using an e-collar to teach bite inhibition is just not smart. Advocating the use of an e-collar to teach bite inhibition to someone who has a demonstrated lack of control is extremely foolhardy.

So far several very experienced and savy long time GSD owners and trainers have given good advice on how to actually handle this situation as well as discouraged the use of an e-collar for this particular problem and for this particular poster.

It would be best to heed that advice.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Julie,

I think the OP has good advice from people with decades of experience supporting Kyleigh's response. I know I have 30 years with GSDs and have taken two very high drive crazy dogs to a certified and operational staus as cadaver dogs. My advice being ... we can't fix this online, get thee to a trainer and my own experience is that shutzhund people would probably be the best resource as they know the breed ... and stick with their advice.

I know others who have replied in support of Kyleigh's post have similar (if different) levels of experience. Since you are advocating this, you may want to qualify your level of expertise in this discipine and the proper appraoch. If the OP cannot get the dog to redirect to a toy in anticipation of a bite, how is she going to have the timing to deliver an electronic correction for same? What is she going to do if it backfires (I have the feeling you are looking at high stim not low stim) and the puppy redirects?
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Last edited by jocoyn; 12-04-2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Edited to add response was to Julie, not GrammaD
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