Wow! Can't do that anymore!!

[Jag]

When I play tug with Layla, she growls and carries on like a maniac. We've always called her "psycho puppy" when she starts growling like this. It's all in play, though.

I was just playing like this with a stuffed toy of hers (then throwing it down the hall for her) and Grim heard her growling and saw that she was engaged with me (the stuffie was small... I don't know if he thought she was biting me or what) and he came running up and grabbed her by the scruff and pulled her away from me. He was NOT playing. When he got her off me, he moved to stand in front of me, blocking her. It wasn't resource guarding as he doesn't care if I pet her, etc. That's not the issue. I've NEVER seen him react to her like that. They are best buddies. He didn't growl at her or bark or anything... just pulled her off and then 'stood guard' over me. I know one thing now... if any dog comes at me, Grim will try to take them out.

[msvette2u]

Why do you let him dictate what transpires in the house? He's not even a year old yet.
If it were me, I'd not let him do that type thing. He must respect you and realize that you're not being harmed.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Why do you let him dictate what transpires in the house? He's not even a year old yet.
If it were me, I'd not let him do that type thing. He must respect you and realize that you're not being harmed.

I didn't "let" him, this is the first time I've seen it! I didn't know if he was wanting to play or what his intentions were. Now that I know this, I will be prepared.

[Jo Ellen]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Why do you let him dictate what transpires in the house? He's not even a year old yet.
If it were me, I'd not let him do that type thing. He must respect you and realize that you're not being harmed.

I don't understand this. Can we really expect a puppy (less than a year is still very much a puppy) to know everything it needs to know? What exactly do you mean "not let him do that type of thing?" How does that translate into how Jag should respond in the moment that this was happening, or before this moment so that it didn't happen at all?

We can't predict behavior we've never seen.

[msvette2u]

If it was me, I'd have taken him by the collar and/or leashed him, and continued to play.
What I mean is...the puppy apparently has the mentality he can control things that are happening and that's not a good place, mentally, for any puppy to grow up.
Well, you can let it continue - but a dog that is that much of a 'control freak' at age 4mos. is only going to get worse and won't be much fun to live with.

[Blanketback]

I've always play-wrestled with my dogs, and it's a PITA when another dog decides that our game is no fun. DH's dog always got upset whenever I played like that with my last dog. She'd have to be put in another room if we wanted to play, because she took the game too seriously.

[KristiM]

It sounds like a dominance/control thing to me. Havoc is like this with my other dogs, he feels that he should control everything they touch and do. Started out just like what you are describibg with Grim. I would try to nip this in the bud if I were you, I constantly have to run interference between Havoc and Odin, it's not fun. Havoc feels that Odin should not be able to play with any toys, chew on anything or go into certain areas of the house, I have to stand there and enforce that Odin IS allowed to do that stuff.

As Havoc has aged I have turned it into an obedience/impulse control type exercise, he has to down stay while I play tug with Odin. If he stays then he gets to play tug, (its actually been great teaching him to control himself around dogs doing agility as well.) If you don't want to correct it at this age (which I can understand) I would definitely at the very least not let him practice the behavior until he has enough obedience that you can put some control in the situation.

[msvette2u]

Can we really expect a puppy (less than a year is still very much a puppy) to know everything it needs to know?

BTW..."no", we can't expect them to know it. That's why we teach them.
Since the OPs response was..."I'd better not play like that again with the Pug", that's why I asked why the dog should dictate how you play.
I'd never let a dog dictate how my house runs or what they "approve of" or not.

Just because the Shep doesn't care for how the dog is playing with the owner, doesn't mean "I can't do that anymore". It's a dog. Teach it that you are in charge, teach it that you can play however you want and so can the Pug.

It's a bit concerning - well, a lot concerning that his puppy is not even 6mos. and has already had a fight with the Pug (did I read that along the way?) and is now controlling how the Pug interacts with the owner.

Just don't let it happen. Leash the brat puppy and continue to carry on as usual. When this dog gets to be 80+ lbs., life's gonna be real interesting since the dog is apparently calling the shots.

We use Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong to remind the dog that we are in charge, not them.
Kristi, I was just going to suggest putting that puppy in a "long down" (which, at 4mos., should be around 5-10 min) while the Pug and owner play.

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Kristi, I was just going to suggest putting that puppy in a "long down" (which, at 4mos., should be around 5-10 min) while the Pug and owner play.

I highly doubt at this age this puppy has a reliable stay in a stimulating environment. I know mine sure didn't! I didn't really start working on impulse control til Havoc was older, so with mine I wasn't able to do this exercise til he was over one y/o. But yes I agree, the puppy should not call the shots with other dogs in the house. I was obviously not able to nip this issue in the bud with my puppy and it is still an issue that is a real PIA to live with! So maybe starting NOW with a good stay would be a good way to go? If you work really hard on impulse control (not using corrections) a young pup CAN have an impressive stay. If I could go back this would have been my main focus with Havoc as a pup.

I am reading Shaping Success by Susan Garrett right now and would highly recommend it for anyone who has a puppy with control issues!

[msvette2u]

OH by "long down" I mean leashed It is described in "Mind Games" (link above)
Yep, teach impulse control, that's one way to do it.
And get it under control now while you can physically handle the dog.