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Wow! Can't do that anymore!!

6K views 60 replies 11 participants last post by  Jag 
#1 ·
When I play tug with Layla, she growls and carries on like a maniac. We've always called her "psycho puppy" when she starts growling like this. It's all in play, though.

I was just playing like this with a stuffed toy of hers (then throwing it down the hall for her) and Grim heard her growling and saw that she was engaged with me (the stuffie was small... I don't know if he thought she was biting me or what) and he came running up and grabbed her by the scruff and pulled her away from me. He was NOT playing. :eek: When he got her off me, he moved to stand in front of me, blocking her. It wasn't resource guarding as he doesn't care if I pet her, etc. That's not the issue. I've NEVER seen him react to her like that. They are best buddies. He didn't growl at her or bark or anything... just pulled her off and then 'stood guard' over me. I know one thing now... if any dog comes at me, Grim will try to take them out. :shocked:
 
#2 ·
Why do you let him dictate what transpires in the house? He's not even a year old yet.
If it were me, I'd not let him do that type thing. He must respect you and realize that you're not being harmed.
 
#3 ·
I didn't "let" him, this is the first time I've seen it! I didn't know if he was wanting to play or what his intentions were. Now that I know this, I will be prepared.
 
#5 ·
If it was me, I'd have taken him by the collar and/or leashed him, and continued to play.
What I mean is...the puppy apparently has the mentality he can control things that are happening and that's not a good place, mentally, for any puppy to grow up.
Well, you can let it continue - but a dog that is that much of a 'control freak' at age 4mos. is only going to get worse and won't be much fun to live with.
 
#6 ·
I've always play-wrestled with my dogs, and it's a PITA when another dog decides that our game is no fun. DH's dog always got upset whenever I played like that with my last dog. She'd have to be put in another room if we wanted to play, because she took the game too seriously.
 
#7 ·
It sounds like a dominance/control thing to me. Havoc is like this with my other dogs, he feels that he should control everything they touch and do. Started out just like what you are describibg with Grim. I would try to nip this in the bud if I were you, I constantly have to run interference between Havoc and Odin, it's not fun. Havoc feels that Odin should not be able to play with any toys, chew on anything or go into certain areas of the house, I have to stand there and enforce that Odin IS allowed to do that stuff.

As Havoc has aged I have turned it into an obedience/impulse control type exercise, he has to down stay while I play tug with Odin. If he stays then he gets to play tug, (its actually been great teaching him to control himself around dogs doing agility as well.) If you don't want to correct it at this age (which I can understand) I would definitely at the very least not let him practice the behavior until he has enough obedience that you can put some control in the situation.
 
#8 ·
Can we really expect a puppy (less than a year is still very much a puppy) to know everything it needs to know?
BTW..."no", we can't expect them to know it. That's why we teach them.
Since the OPs response was..."I'd better not play like that again with the Pug", that's why I asked why the dog should dictate how you play.
I'd never let a dog dictate how my house runs or what they "approve of" or not.

Just because the Shep doesn't care for how the dog is playing with the owner, doesn't mean "I can't do that anymore". It's a dog. Teach it that you are in charge, teach it that you can play however you want and so can the Pug.

It's a bit concerning - well, a lot concerning that his puppy is not even 6mos. and has already had a fight with the Pug (did I read that along the way?) and is now controlling how the Pug interacts with the owner.

Just don't let it happen. Leash the brat puppy and continue to carry on as usual. When this dog gets to be 80+ lbs., life's gonna be real interesting since the dog is apparently calling the shots.

We use Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong to remind the dog that we are in charge, not them.
Kristi, I was just going to suggest putting that puppy in a "long down" (which, at 4mos., should be around 5-10 min) while the Pug and owner play.
 
#9 ·
Kristi, I was just going to suggest putting that puppy in a "long down" (which, at 4mos., should be around 5-10 min) while the Pug and owner play.
I highly doubt at this age this puppy has a reliable stay in a stimulating environment. I know mine sure didn't! I didn't really start working on impulse control til Havoc was older, so with mine I wasn't able to do this exercise til he was over one y/o. But yes I agree, the puppy should not call the shots with other dogs in the house. I was obviously not able to nip this issue in the bud with my puppy and it is still an issue that is a real PIA to live with! So maybe starting NOW with a good stay would be a good way to go? If you work really hard on impulse control (not using corrections) a young pup CAN have an impressive stay. If I could go back this would have been my main focus with Havoc as a pup.

I am reading Shaping Success by Susan Garrett right now and would highly recommend it for anyone who has a puppy with control issues!
 
#10 ·
OH by "long down" I mean leashed ;) It is described in "Mind Games" (link above)
Yep, teach impulse control, that's one way to do it.
And get it under control now while you can physically handle the dog.
 
#11 ·
Jag will be prepared next time.

I am sure this post was a "holy cow!" post, and not a " I don't know what to do" post.

Next time Grim does this, she will correct him.

What I am seeing is not an owner who is not in control, but an owner who is being constantly surprised by a puppy who is not expected to behave this way until much later.
 
#12 ·
What I am seeing is not an owner who is not in control, but an owner who is being constantly surprised by a puppy who is not expected to behave this way until much later.
Puppies do like to surprise us, don't they :) I actually love it when I learn something new about Spirit ... whether it's positive or negative. It's all just getting to know your dog and learning and growing together.
 
#14 ·
My golden retriever did that to an dog across the street looking for a fight. Mind you, this dog is practically the size of her paw LOL. She pinned her to the ground by her neck in a second flat and held her there, no sound from her at all.

It's quite something to see, isn't it. :)
 
#17 ·
I can only go by what I experienced with DH's dog, and what I personally will tolerate, so it's entirely subjective. But - why would a dog get upset when they hear a play growl? What does this mean, and what are the consequences? I was not happy that DH's dog decided that our game was a threat, because I figured that if she couldn't differentiate between a game and a threat, what was she thinking? BTW, she was also a notorious guarder - food, bones, and area. She's much better at this now, but she's still bad with food and needs to be crated at mealtime. She's an American Bulldog and generally very sweet, but not a dog you want calling the shots.
 
#18 ·
what was she thinking?
This is the problem. Dogs aren't notorious for making good, rational decisions.
You can't ascribe human morals onto them and say "Oh yeah, he knew the Pug was...", because obviously he didn't.

He grew up with this dog, hears it growl in play, and still took it upon himself to "correct" the Pug, who is an alpha to him and should be deferred to as such.

But that's how my own household would run.
Our pup, even at 15mos. or whatever, doesn't get to go around correcting the older dogs. It just messes up their heads, to think they should be the "cops" so to speak.
Ain't gonna happen here. And at just 4mos....that to me, speaks volumes. He is going to get worse and it'll transfer to people soon, if he can't take instruction from owner now, regarding other dogs.

OP, what will you do when your neighbor drops by and the dog decides it doesn't like him entering the front room? If you let him make decisions now over a play-fight with your other dog, he'll keep taking liberties as to what he deems appropriate or not. NOT a good scenario.
 
#19 ·
Just a completely innocent question based on most that I've read on here but isn't a four month old too young to be guarding and protective? Most people are told that its fear based and to step up the training/socialization before you have a bigger problem on your hands.

Is it Grims pedigree that makes it different? I know this is what type of dog you were looking for and what your breeder gave you but just curious.

Btw he's growing into a very handsome pup since you brought him home.


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#22 · (Edited)
I thought so, yes. Apparently, his pedigree says otherwise. His breeder doesn't think it's abnormal, nor do some other respected folks on here that have raised and trained Czech dogs. I didn't expect this big of a difference, but there it is.
Grim doesn't guard food, water, toys, or anything else. My Pug does, though. We've been working on that with her, and she's over the food thing now, and getting better about the toys. She doesn't get nasty with toys, she just takes a toy right out of Grim's mouth and runs off with it. He's starting to take it back now if it's something he really wants. Otherwise, he just gets something else. Neither get nasty about it at all. I've seen him drink out of the same bowl as Layla and the old lady mutt. They butt into his water bowl, too. He doesn't care. Most things just roll off his back.
 
#20 ·
I'll try this one more time. Then I won't explain it again. Layla does NOT sound like she's playing when she growls during play. *I* know she's playing, but even our older mutt will bark (although she doesn't get up) when Layla's playing this way. Grim doesn't guard food, toys, or anything else. In fact, when he eats food falls out of his mouth all over the floor and Layla runs around eating what's on the floor and he just watches her and then goes back to his bowl. Layla is NOT alpha over him. She's also still a pup. HE *is* an alpha (by birth, by temperament) which is a challenge at times to have him listen to me when what he wants is something different. However, he isn't a jerk with her. He'll roll over on his back or side while playing with her. He does at times stand over her. She rolls on her side or back sometimes... sometimes she doesn't. It's 'equal' pretty much. Do I intervene? Yes, when it doesn't seem like fair play. However, she's bowled him over many times, and it doesn't start any fights. She's like a tank, so when she runs into him she has more physical power. This has never caused a fight or an argument. They play just fine. He didn't go after her once he stopped her 'attack' on me. They played the rest of the night as usual.

I didn't "allow" anything!! This was something that there was no way to predict. By the time his intentions were clear, it was over. He didn't hold a grudge. Neither did she. Now that I DO know he'll react this way, I'll avoid the situation or correct it before it gets there. If he'd been growling on his way or even when he got there, I'd have stopped him before he made contact. I'm not trying to have dog fights. These guys are best buddies.

msvette2- you're making leaping assumptions about how I handle things. It's not possible to 'correct' something when it's a new behavior that happened quickly and before you knew it was going on. You must be a mind reader to dogs. I'm not. Of course I wouldn't allow him to 'decide' (at this age) who he needs to 'protect' me from! Do you really have THAT low of an opinion of me?? At his age, he doesn't have the experience to make those decisions. I've never seen a pup his age act the way he does sometimes. So how would I possibly know that he'd react this way?? It's unusual. (To me, anyway) How many dominant Czech pups have you had? This is my first, and I really didn't think there would be *that* much difference between him and the other pups I've had. However, he's proving me wrong at times. This is one of the reasons we're going to a trainer. One with decades of experience with Czech dogs. I have no intention of letting him 'run the house'. However, I do understand that there are things about him that are rooted in his temperament, his genetics. I know those things can't be changed, but can be managed. Do I expect him to make decisions when he's older? Definitely. Right now, his suspicion of people is very low. So anyone who comes into our house is OK with him. I've had people he doesn't know walk through the door. He's been just fine with it. Will that change? Yes, I know it will change. When? I don't know. I suppose it will be like this episode. One day he's OK with it, the next he's not. How will I know in advance? Not a clue. Since he'll start training in a week or so, I hope to have more of an idea on all this.

Shepherds are known to be the 'hall monitors'. However, it usually doesn't happen until they're older. Right now, the old lady mutt is the 'hall monitor'. Do I let her get away with it? No! She doesn't interfere, but she'll bark. I get after her for that, too. By the time I knew what Grim was up to, it was too late to correct him. He would have just been confused. No matter what adult behaviors he throws out there now and then, he's still a pup. Not that I won't draw the line, but when you don't know what to expect because he's still changing I don't know how you'd know in advance that a pup will throw out an adult behavior.

One last thing. I know we don't agree on pack ranking. You think it goes by age, and I think it goes by temperament. Grim can think he's the alpha all day long, but that doesn't change what I'll put up with and what I won't. However, expecting a natural born alpha to defer to a non-alpha just because of age is trying to change their genetic makeup. I won't waste my time or effort. I DO expect the rules to be followed, regardless of their genetics. However, you can't know they're about to break a rule in advance. As I said, he's come over before when I was playing tug with Layla and just wanted to join in. So I expected he was going to do the same as he's always done. Who would expect that reaction from a 4 month old? Now, I will expect it. To any 'stranger' Layla certainly does not sound like she's playing with that growl. I'm assuming that Grim didn't know, either. We were also playing with a small stuffie. He may not have seen the toy and thought she was biting me. I don't know. Either way, that's not a behavior I'd allow. BUT, he never did that before. I hope this is now clear. I can't break it down or explain it any more than this.
 
#21 ·
It's interesting that even a puppy so young can display guarding behaviors, but they do. My neighbor's Lab (at the same age) wouldn't share a water dish with my puppy. It was a big rectangle, and when both pups were drinking, she continuously used her head to push his head into the corner and out of the water. She wasn't mean about it, but she succeeded in getting him out of it, every time. He got frustrated and ended up sticking his paw in the dish, tipping it over, lol. But I know that I won't be letting them share a water bowl next summer, because I don't think she'll react very well and I don't want to deal with anything happening.
 
#23 ·
Newborn puppies on the nipple will "resource guard". It's about survival.

I do not see your puppy's behavior as protection but rather resource guarding/attempting to control, neither of which are behaviors you'd want to encourage.
 
#24 ·
See it however you want. Obviously, there's no changing your mind. I know resource guarding. My Pug does it. Grim does not. I can pet her, play with her, etc. and he doesn't care. Apparently, he doesn't appreciate the growling at me. Again, how many dominant Czech pups have you had? This behavior, and protecting the handler at his age isn't unexpected according to my breeder, nor is it unexpected according to others that have bred and trained and raised Czech dogs. Nothing I've ever seen before, but apparently it can be perfectly normal for them. Of course, the worry there is that they don't have the experience to recognize a 'true threat' at that age. That's what training is for.
 
#25 ·
Of course, the worry there is that they don't have the experience to recognize a 'true threat' at that age. That's what training is for.
That's essentially what I've been saying.
Whether it's actual "brave" guarding or resource guarding, it must be stopped.

You need to take control of this puppy, stop him from making such decisions and take over making decisions for him.

As I mentioned, it'll extend to humans soon enough this way. Not good at all.
When I see people bragging about how their puppy guards...it's always a red flag, sorry.
 
#26 ·
That's essentially what I've been saying.
Whether it's actual "brave" guarding or resource guarding, it must be stopped.

You need to take control of this puppy, stop him from making such decisions and take over making decisions for him.

As I mentioned, it'll extend to humans soon enough this way. Not good at all.
When I see people bragging about how their puppy guards...it's always a red flag, sorry.
What makes you think I'm not?? :confused: Let me in on your secret for reading dogs' minds. Please.

Who is bragging? I was surprised, and caught off guard. I have LOTS of things to brag about with Grim. His "I'm in charge" stuff is not something I brag about. I find it frustrating. It's not all the time. If he's in the mood to go along I guess he does? Who knows? When he's an adult, trained, and I *know* he can make proper decisions, THEN I will brag about his protection. As far as a puppy being handler protective being a red flag, I'll let you argue that point with my breeder.
 
#27 ·
if any dog comes at me, Grim will try to take them out. :shocked:
Okay then, I must have misinterpreted this.


Let me in on your secret for reading dogs' minds. Please.
You don't have to be mean about it. Dogs are opportunists, plain and simple. That's not hard to understand.

MIND GAMES helps you understand that and get it under control, which is why I put the link there. If you read it, it might help your understanding, and also there's some books I've found extremely helpful if you are interested.

You messaged me in the past about how helpful my posts have been to you, so at some point you must have found something useful :shrug:
 
#29 ·
I HAVE found a lot of your posts helpful! This is why I'm both surprised and a bit frustrated with your responses here. On my sentence there, there is a shocked face... not a smiley face. If I was bragging, I'd have a smiley. I'm shocked. Period. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just frustrated. I KNOW Grim wants to be in control. I've been trying to get on top of it. Most of the time, he goes with the flow. Sometimes, he does something that floors me (like this). I am very happy to be going to this trainer, because I knew I may well need help with him. Until I actually got him, though, I didn't realize how different he was from my previous shepherds. I appreciate the link. I feel, though, that you're misjudging me as someone who will let a dog do whatever they want and I'm cheering them on. I'm also not one of these people who thinks having an out of control aggressive dog is cool. If you recall, I had a bitch like this. She broke my heart. It's NOT what I want in a dog. Grim isn't out of control. He's just a dominant dog that needs more going on. He'll get that right after we move. I don't think I'm going to change his genetics (nor do I want to) but I want him to be OBEDIENT and to realize I am in control, not him.

He's still fine with strangers coming in, as my daughter just walked in the door (she's away at college) and he never barked or anything. Let her right in, didn't react at all when I hugged her. His tail was wagging and he waited for pets from her.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I meant 'physical'.. as in smacking the dog, hitting the dog, etc. I've never had a dog that 'likes to fight'. No, that wasn't anywhere in my list of 'wants' to my breeder. I'd actually never heard that phrase until I spoke with my breeder. She wasn't talking about it in the 'things you look for in a good dog' either. There was a great article that someone posted a link to about working with dominant dogs. I will go find the link and post it here for you. I've also found helpful things from people who have this kind of dog, and it's more about mentally managing the dog than getting into a 'fight' with the dog. Made sense to me. I don't see where putting a dog in its crate, restricting the dog's movement by leashing it, or even body blocking the dog is 'getting physical'. Looks like we have different definitions of that phrase. As for me handling him, you don't have to worry about that.

Here's the link to the article
http://www.tarheelcanine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Jerry-BradshawV4I2.pdf
 
#33 ·
I meant 'physical'.. as in smacking the dog, hitting the dog, etc.
I smack and slap my dogs all the time....in play. For some reason you can hit them pretty darn hard during play and they LIKE it.

There was a great article that someone posted a link to about working with dominant dogs. I will go find the link and post it here for you.
yes, I've read it. and I've even worked with and titled a few dominant dogs!


I've also found helpful things from people who have this kind of dog, and it's more about mentally managing the dog than getting into a 'fight' with the dog. Made sense to me. I don't see where putting a dog in its crate, restricting the dog's movement by leashing it, or even body blocking the dog is 'getting physical'. Looks like we have different definitions of that phrase.
I listed a few examples that could be used on a young puppy. Those certainly aren't the only examples of a physical correction! And there are some times, especially with a very young dog, when a quick grab and a clear "You will NOT do that" work wonders. Fortunately I'm not currently working a dog that has dominance issues, and it's oh so nice and relaxing, tho I did have to become reacquainted with the finesse side of training. Bunny isn't a pushover by any means, but Mike just plain didn't notice finesse, and he wasn't interested in giving anything in order to get a reward. I still use physical corrections but also physical play, and sometimes the line between the 2 is pretty blurry.

As for me handling him, you don't have to worry about that.
OK. I have absolutely no idea what your real experience level is, and it's very difficult to tell from your posts.
 
#36 ·
I was just playing like this with a stuffed toy of hers (then throwing it down the hall for her) and Grim heard her growling and saw that she was engaged with me (the stuffie was small... I don't know if he thought she was biting me or what) and he came running up and grabbed her by the scruff and pulled her away from me. He was NOT playing. :eek: When he got her off me, he moved to stand in front of me, blocking her out. :shocked:
I'm speaking from past failures on this one. The moment he came running towards you, you should have corrected him. When he grabbed her, you should have corrected him. He should never have had the chance to stand in front of you to block.

This behavior can tip the scales between the two dogs. Once it has, it's very difficult (and in my case, I've failed horribly) to fix.

I allowed something very much the same take place within my current dogs. Admittedly, I watched with surprise when it happened. If I had reacted and continued to watch for the red flags and corrected, I would not have to crate and rotate for the life time of two of my dogs now.

The two dogs I refer to were best buds as well. Now, they can't even be in the same room together.

I think we have to remember that our dogs can read our body language as well as the body language of us humans better than we ever give them credit for. If your dog was growling(seriously) at you and you were reacting (fear) to that growl then I think I'd have given him a free pass for correcting the dog you were playing with. But it was obvious that you were playing - albeit rougher than normal - it was considered by both parties to be play.
 
#37 ·
I think in these situations you do need to be careful with corrections. This is just my experience with havoc, I tried to correct his dominant, controlling behaviours and it made it worse! I will admit that I got pretty angry and frustrated and I gave havoc some real "knock his block off" corrections which turned his dominant, controlling behaviour into angry aggression directed at my other dogs. If I could go back it would all be about self control, I would use the behaviour as a positive opportunity to start implementing some self control around things he felt needed controlling, protecting whatever you want to call it.


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#38 ·
I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I am.

When Grim came running towards us, I expected he'd do what he's always done...which was want to play too. He grabbed her and pulled her off in two seconds or less. Too fast for me to react at that point. The maybe five seconds he stood in front of me, I was trying to process what just happened. Then he trotted back to his food bowl to eat. I will be prepared next time and stop Grim before he ever reaches her. I PROMISE. Thankfully, there have been no further issues between them. I do NOT allow fighting. I don't know if he saw the toy or not. I don't want to test this by using the rope toy, because I won't know if he's coming over to play or to 'remove' her and I don't want a repeat.

Due to my high stress level at this time with things going on here (not dog related) I think I'm done posting about Grim. Too many people making too many assumptions about things. Either I'm not making myself clear in my explanations, or people aren't actually reading what I'm posting.

Yes, I have experience with dogs with behavioral issues. If you actually read my posts on this thread, you'd know that as I mentioned one of my dogs that had severe behavioral issues. No, I haven't had a Czech pup before, and no I've never had a pup this pigheaded before and no, I've never had a pup that pulled out adult behaviors before. I've also never had a pup that I never saw sleep before. No, I don't think I'm in over my head. Yes, I successfully trained my own shepherds in the past. Yes, I'm taking Grim to a trainer. Yes, he does know what he's doing. Yes, I did get what I asked for from the breeder. Yes, I do love my boy to death. Yes, I do realize that this isn't 'good' behavior. Yes, I do fully intend on keeping Grim. No, I'm not freaking out still over it. Yes, I do expect my dogs to do what I tell them to. Yes, I do realize that Grim likes to try to take control. No, I do not intend on allowing him to. Yes, when I run into issues I talk to those that I feel are "in the know" about him and are familiar with his bloodlines. Yes, I was familiar with his bloodlines before I got him. Yes, I was told he was stubborn and controlling before I got him. He's a working dog. He will be worked. Before I got Grim, I would have had a similar reaction as some of you. All I can tell you is this is something you have to see to believe. I'm extremely thankful that he isn't my first dog. Then again, the breeder wouldn't have sold him to me if he was. That's about it, I guess.
 
#47 ·
BTW...I have nothing against the OP and people are making it seem this is personal. It's not personal, I believe the OP is a fine person.
However, I'll always address training issues if there seems to be, for the sake of the dog.
Kyleigh you say we're "slamming the OP". To the contrary - I've been trying to explain why the behavior the OP is seeing (and I believe Jag is a man, correct me if I'm wrong) is a cause for concern.
It has nothing to do with the OP but rather was hoping to show him instances where things will need to be addressed with his puppy.

I also had people PM me and tell me my advice was "spot on" so take that for whatever it's worth :shrug:

a bad precident has been set. That's all.
Exactly. Don't let the dog call the shots. That's been my message since I posted here, and I'll say it with any dog, whether "American" or "Czech" lines (and the OPs dog is apparently 2 generations removed from "Czech" lines so actually that excuse won't fly).
 
#50 ·
BTW...I have nothing against the OP and people are making it seem this is personal. It's not personal, I believe the OP is a fine person.
However, I'll always address training issues if there seems to be, for the sake of the dog.
Kyleigh you say we're "slamming the OP". To the contrary - I've been trying to explain why the behavior the OP is seeing (and I believe Jag is a man, correct me if I'm wrong) is a cause for concern.
It has nothing to do with the OP but rather was hoping to show him instances where things will need to be addressed with his puppy.

I also had people PM me and tell me my advice was "spot on" so take that for whatever it's worth :shrug:


Exactly. Don't let the dog call the shots. That's been my message since I posted here, and I'll say it with any dog, whether "American" or "Czech" lines (and the OPs dog is apparently 2 generations removed from "Czech" lines so actually that excuse won't fly).
1. It's a training 'issue' if there's no training going on. When a new reaction to the same thing comes up, it's not a training issue unless there's a failure to train.
2. No, I'm not a man. Another wrong assumption on your part.
3. You do have good advice sometimes, and other times you fail to listen and just keep on the road you're on.
4. Every. Single. Dog. in my pup's pedigree is a Czech line dog. Some were bred in the US, but the only 'blood' is Czech. He's not 'partially' anything else. It's not an excuse, either. It's an explanation. I don't excuse his bad behavior, but he's pulling out adult behaviors due to his blood lines. You've obviously never had this type of dog. I haven't either until now. The differences are beyond explanation. When you get one let me know so we're both on the same page.
5. You don't need to 'show' me anything. I explained that several times, but you weren't listening.
 
#49 ·
Badly. :( It's not going to be a good day.

You guys are still hammering away... lost in your own world. Yeah, you know what? I'm going to let him do whatever he wants. Kill the Pug, eat the birds, bite my neighbors and family, etc. I think I'll stop putting him on a leash and just let him run free. Hopefully he'll turn into a super aggressive monster that attacks everyone. Then I'll sit and laugh. I'll ask his permission to leave the house, eat, sleep, etc. Why not? That's perfectly normal, right? :rolleyes:
 
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