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Old 11-11-2012, 11:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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mdm282, what are your pups lines, can you post a pedigree?

as I've already hijacked this thread(sorry!), I want to post a vid of Andy man tracking after he was retired from formal training/trialing. Work ethic never ends!
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't see him working in prey drive much. Where most clubs and trainers expect this, it's nice to have found a place where defensive drive is preferred and he can just do his thing. It's my understanding that Czech lines have a genetic civility that works well in this type of training, and it's the same reason they can do LE work and military work so well.
I'm part way through that vid. I LOVE the 'don't threaten my handler' reaction, LOL!!
I think having a balance of prey and defense is best...neither should be over the top, and good helpers will work the dog to balance out what is needed. You'll be fine working with your new trainer, he knows what to do, though your dog is young so I would let him grow up some before you get to that point. Right now prey is good!
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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nice vid onyx my bitches father is also a titled patrol dog


its not pure defense its a mix of defense and prey

when my dog is being worked she seems to be in both or being switched in and out of both its really wierd, she boxes and spars with the decoy like they are in a boxing or ufc match. Like the decoy is a fighting partner. Jag your dog has to work in prey drive also or he will be a stressed out mess in protection. Prey drive is a happy place to be and then defense is an ugly place to be. together they seem to balance each other out. Too much of either is a bad thing.

Last edited by pets4life; 11-11-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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My husband is the TD for Copper Creek, I'm the club president. Send me the pedigree if you have access to it and then give us a call. We may be a bit hard to get tomorrow as we have some private training set up so will be away from the phone. Will be in-kennel most of the day Tuesday.
I will PM you with the info.

THANK YOU ALL for you help! I will try to get more info from the breeder and see how things go.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Jag also if your dog is a puppy i wouldnt be working it in defense let it mature and just work it in prey till its drives balance out for now. Don't put too much pressure on it where it feels it needs to go into real defense (fears for its life) Join a sport club and when its over a year and confidant then think about other stuff. Puppy shouldn't be getting defensive like that.

Last edited by pets4life; 11-11-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Jag also i just wanted to comment no decent place is going to prefer dogs working in defense, that is just a very confidant police dog that can handle a lot of pressure and is in fight? drive. It depends on the dog what the goal is and what needs to be worked on to get to that goal and the level of experience and nerve of that dog etc..

Working young not ready dogs in defense is a great way to screw them up and ruin them. A lot of crappy trainers will do this and try to trick you into thinking they are making your dog really tough and vicious for protection. usually Personal protection trainers who try to scam people will do this.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:07 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I think you misunderstood my post. I stated that most clubs don't want to see a dog work in defense. They want only prey. I am joining a club, but one that doesn't only work in prey drive. When the dog is mature, they work also in defense and more 'real world' than sport. I'm well aware that as a pup and very young dog, too much pressure will mess up a dog. This happened to my first GSD who ended up having to protect me at too young of an age (not by a trainer, by a home situation) and then was messed up from that. This trainer and club owner is very experienced and very good. It's the exact same type of club and training that Onyx's owner has Karlo in. You have no problem with that, but you're giving me grief, which I don't get. He's not going to take a five month old pup and put pressure on it that the dog can't handle. I am speaking in the long term, and from what I've been told by other clubs about what they 'prefer'. I also know that he's got to do well in obedience. A dog that does badly in obedience should never be trained in anything put prey. (If that, even) However, he will start training right away. He needs the trial obedience and tracking training also. I'm not taking him to some personal protection hack trainer. I'm looking for IPO titles also. I just want my guy to have more experience than "this is a game to go play" because as he matures, I expect to see some genetic civil aggression out of him. Having an outlet for that and knowing what's appropriate and what's not is important to me.
My pup is also already handler protective. I didn't train that. In fact, it's surprising to me. It's not surprising to his breeder though. I talked to this trainer for over an hour. We talked about how they introduce 'stress' to dogs in training. Nothing that would make a dog fold or harm the dog mentally. This trainer was recommended to me. He said he prefers working with 'real' dogs. I don't see that as a bad thing. I think that dogs with IPO titles that will fold when confronted with a real threat is a bad thing, and the trainer agreed with me. If I wasn't on the same page with this guy, I wouldn't be willing to waste my time and money going there. Whatever your goals are with your dog, you have to find a place that those goals can be met. However, they have to be realistic goals and goals that aren't harmful to your dog. Any trainer that starts training young pups to work in defense is harming them. That's not what I meant at all, though. This is a long term thing for me...so that part will come later. That it's available is what is exciting, as a lot of clubs don't want that type of dog or that type of work.
More than police dogs can do this type of work. Any confident, stable dog can do this work. My guy is from PS lines. He's genetically predisposed to being able to do this type of work. Why not work with the genetics and temperament instead of against it?
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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If you are not experienced to pick your own puppy, do you think that you can handle a pp trained dog? They have to be able to figure things and threats out themselves and act accordingly. Are you ready for that type of dog?
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:38 AM   #29 (permalink)
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If you are not experienced to pick your own puppy, do you think that you can handle a pp trained dog? They have to be able to figure things and threats out themselves and act accordingly. Are you ready for that type of dog?
Lots of breeders would pick a puppy for you (often you don't even have a choice of choosing one yourself), you just present them with what you're looking for and have to trust your breeder... I know what to look in a pup (had 2 Boxers, 1 Great Dane, 1 German Shorthaired Pointer), but in this situation there are 2 females with slight differences, so wanted to hear from GSD owners/trainers...

When it comes to pp... She's just about to be 8 WEEKS old, NOT pp trained, and nowhere near to be ready for pp training... It's somewhere in the future ONLY IF she has the right temperament to do so.

Thanks for your concerns, because I know that often owners don't realize what it takes to handle a dog, which unfortunately can lead to accidents.

I'm not naive and safety is my top priority, so I posted the question to hear from people who had/have dogs with similar personalities and from trainers who have experience and could give me some extra advice.

Thanks again!
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