Well, Bear just got spanked!

[Oskar der Drachen]

He finally found a dog that wouldn't put up with his crap, and spanked him but good. Crying like a baby!

We (my daughter and I) were down on the beach with Fred and Bear. We met another dog & owner again. He has a boxer bitch who we have met several times over the last few months. She had a friend along tonight. Another girl-dog, a Boxer cross. She is smaller than Bear, and is 9 1/2 months old. Bear had bowled up to her and had tried the "I'm bigger than you." routine. Not aggressively, but definitely trying to get the upper hand in the relationship. She wasn't having it and put him down in the sand.

Loud snappy and growly barky. Bear tried to hang in there for a couple of seconds and then caved in, and ended up bowled and literally crying like a baby. I had pulled them apart by then and he had a few seconds of going to pieces. I reassured the other guy that he wasn't hurt, just scared. The other owner had taken charge of the Boxer and had her laid down too.

The best thing though I have to say was that Bear was over it quickly and went back to playing with the small group of dogs (4 in all) and while wary of the Boxer, did manage to get close to her amicably a bit later on.

I think this shows a lot of resilience on his part. I didn't know whether or not to put this in the "Braggs" section though...

Comments? Advice at this point, or are we going well?

[jocoyn]

How old is Bear?

[Oskar der Drachen]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

How old is Bear?

Bear is four and a half months old, he was born on the 14th of September 2011. He is 40lbs now.

He was the most laid back of the three males in the litter, chosen for that with purpose and foresight. Bear likes to roll over and present his belly to me and the family, and has no issues to getting a belly rub from the public either which I am encouraging. He has very little of the "GSD reserve" that I read about here. I'm not sure why that is desirable, maybe meat for another thread.

Bear is not the most rip-tear pup, but he does like to be on the top of a dog-dog relationship so to speak. He is submissive to Fred my large Lab Staffie Huntaway cross, but not very much. Bear will defer to Fred, follow him aound on walks, be a puppy for him, and sleep cuddled up next to him but he will harass and chew on Fred as well. Fred assumed the post of Patient Parent for Bear I'm seeing, but Fred himself is not of a temper to spank Bear when he needs it. Fred is too laid back himself.

I step in when the play gets to the point where I see Fred getting impatient and frustrated. I can see the "Get this kid off me!" look now and again.

It was dusk, and I had been swimming so I did not see exactly what sparked the tiff, but I was within two yards, so I could see the evolution of what happened. Bear had tried (I think) to either jump on her (the boxer cross) back or throw a paw over her head. She put a shoulder into him and knocked him back from underneath and started with the growly/barky/snappy. Loud too! Bear barked back and tried to carry the tiff, but she was WAY to quick for him and bowled him again and that's where he lost it. He went from loud/aggressive to loud/crying and laying down with her on top.

Fast! maybe ten seconds from start to finish with him leaning into me still crying. He may have been nipped a few times as well, but nothing damaging. The Boxer was with her owner, and he settled and laid her down near me, and I did the same till both dogs were calm while we talked things through.

He was worried that I would be upset, my dog being the loser. No harm no foul though, and I'm SURE that Bear started the scrap. I am thinking the whole incident was/is a positive thing. She was the first dog (of smaller or equal size) that has not deferred to, or avoided him.

We have a Fox Terrier at home who was bigger than Bear when first home, but now tiny in comparison. He will let Vixen bark at him and chase him about to play Zoomies, but he knows that he is on top of that relationship.

Anyway, what do you think Jocoyn?

[jocoyn]

I am one voice of many but Grim is very laid back to and I finally let him set Beau straight when the puppy pass wore off. I would rather have a stable adult correct an impudent young whippersnapper than another puppy.

The crying I cannot answer. When Grim did pin Beau, he squealed, settled, Grim let him go, and it was over. He gave Grim more space and it happened a few more times. Beau was never shaken up and just took it in stride.

It was around 4+ months when that puppy pass wore off; before that Grim was very tolerant.

Now Beau is 6.5 months and I have not seen him be a jerk for the past month. I do not do dog parks or let him play with strange dogs though.

[Oskar der Drachen]

I think part of the problem here is that Fred is a SPCA special. He was picked up off the roadside with his brother as a pup, and I adopted him shortly after. The two pups had kept themselves alive by eating roadkill...

I don't think Fred knows how to put the Word out to Bear. He was not brought up far enough with other dogs around I think.

Is there any way that I can teach Fred how to put a brake on Bear's more outrageous harassments?

That being said, the behaviours Bear shows Fred are not THAT over the top, but I can see Fred getting impatient and a bit desperate for my intervention.

Back to Bear's lady Boxer. It sure wasn't a planned lesson! lol The Boxer from the time I spent watching her play was very stable, but had a definite "A" type personality. She raided my bait pouch! I knelt down to say Hi to the pups in the mini-pack and felt the not-so-light touch of an intruder, not once but twice!

[jocoyn]

I am sure someone else with more puppy experience than I will have more insights.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Oskar der Drachen

I think part of the problem here is that Fred is a SPCA special. He was picked up off the roadside with his brother as a pup, and I adopted him shortly after. The two pups had kept themselves alive by eating roadkill...

I don't think Fred knows how to put the Word out to Bear. He was not brought up far enough with other dogs around I think.

Is there any way that I can teach Fred how to put a brake on Bear's more outrageous harassments?

That being said, the behaviours Bear shows Fred are not THAT over the top, but I can see Fred getting impatient and a bit desperate for my intervention.

Back to Bear's lady Boxer. It sure wasn't a planned lesson! lol The Boxer from the time I spent watching her play was very stable, but had a definite "A" type personality. She raided my bait pouch! I knelt down to say Hi to the pups in the mini-pack and felt the not-so-light touch of an intruder, not once but twice!

Buy two crates, crate train your dog and simply put the puppy away so the older one can get a break.
When you let the puppy out. Put the older one into the crate, work your puppy a little in obedience and mentally. Nosework is an excellent game for puppies that makes them tired quickly.

Also, crate games are fantastic exercises and helps you teach your dog the following things.

Allows anyone to produce:
* Focus and motivation for work
* A dog that can relax in his crate even while you work another dog
* A phenomenal sit stay
* A speedy and dependable recall
* Distance skills for obedience or agility
* Self- rather then imposed-control
* A remarkable working relationship
* Confidence while being proofed during any tough distraction
* A dog that keenly offers responses when being shaped
* ...and much more!

As for correcting the puppy. Read your dogs. If the puppy gets too much. Take the puppy out of the picture and put it into the crate.

As for crates itself. Believe me when I say I am the biggest opposition of crates. I don't like crates, I hate crating dogs BUT they are incredible tools that you can use to train your dogs, to keep your dogs sanity from one another and to raise puppies and still giving your old ones a break from them.

[studio1one]

I think these kinds of corrections are an important part of a dogs socialisation and as long as the other dog was simply correcting and not attacking there is no harm. The fact he bounced back well and was playing with other dogs within a few minutes is a good sign.

At the end of the day pups have to learn some manners, and if it can be done without any actual damage, mentally or physically then all the better. If they keep bounding up to and bouncing all over other dogs without a proper meet and greet then at some point someone will teach them how to be polite. Luckily it sounds like yours was taught sensibly and not violently.

[Mrs.K]

I am not a big fan of letting dogs correct other dogs. If anyone corrects it's me and it's my job to know when I have to take the puppy out. Dogs can be well socialized even though they never got a correction from another dog.

Of course, we are not perfect and we can't be a 100% on top of them at all times and we may miss something but as long as I can help it, no dog will be corrected by another dog. If a dog is corrected, it's by me.

In the end, it's my job to teach a puppy the propper manners.

[jocoyn]

I really think adult dogs have a role in teaching puppies puppy manners. I realized that all the corrected I tried to do with Beau jumping on him and Cyra, Grim took care of in about three pin-downs. But I do think it should be a stable adult dog doing the correcting.