Can i leave 2 males alone? Pup and a 1yr old

[Jen&Bear]

I am considering another puppy on the next litter. My Bear will be about a year by then.

Is it a good idea to have 2 males and leave them alone together?
As their age progress will they fight badly? Will i have to crate them?

Also, is it ok or mean to have the pup crated and the older one free while i am away?

I am curious to know the facts about this before i try 2 again.
Because for 2 weeks i had Bear and his bro and at 8wks they would fight and fight and fight or "play" as they say. Will it get worse as they get bigger?

Any recommendations?

[selzer]

Originally Posted by Jen&Bear

I am considering another puppy on the next litter. My Bear will be about a year by then.

Is it a good idea to have 2 males and leave them alone together? No.
As their age progress will they fight badly? Maybe. Will i have to crate them? Maybe.

Also, is it ok or mean to have the pup crated and the older one free while i am away? That is ok, certainly better than a dead or bullied puppy.

I am curious to know the facts about this before i try 2 again. Why do you want two so close together?
Because for 2 weeks i had Bear and his bro and at 8wks they would fight and fight and fight or "play" as they say. Will it get worse as they get bigger? Maybe.

Any recommendations?

Since you asked, my recommendations are the following:

1. Take Bear in training classes, start with obedience, rally, or schutzhund.

2. Join a breed Club and go to meetings and every club sponsored event.

3. Join a training club and participate in events.

4. After your boy has been through basic obedience, CGC, advanced obedience, maybe earned a title or two, switch to herding or tracking.

5. After you have reached a level of sufficiency in that, train in agility.

6. Continue to go to your training club and breed club meetings.

7. If you have the time and resources, foster an older dog of the opposite sex. Take both to classes -- separate classes, work on any issues.

8. Find another venue, put another title on your boy, train him some more.

When he is 4 years old, start looking for the type of puppy that you want next. Male (if you neuter) is ok. Female a little easier. 4 years between dogs is really a good span. And if you go through all that training, prior to your next pup, and are committed to do the same with the next one, intact or neutered will not matter, you will be fine with the two.

Do as I say, not as I do. In 4 years, my girls are going to be geriatric, all of them will be geriatric one right after another, and then I will lose them one by one. I wouldn't wish that on an enemy.

[Emoore]

I agree with Selzer. My pup is 1 year old and I'm spending every spare minute on him. If I had an 8-week old puppy right now I'd probably go out back into the cornfield and shoot myself. Not to mention the financial and emotional aspects 12 years down the road when you have two seniors with senior health problems and then they both pass away right around the same time.

[JakodaCD OA]

heck Masi will be 4 in April, and I'd be right behind ya in that cornfield if I had an 8 week old puppy right now LOL...

And I will never get two dogs close in age again, failed at it a couple of times, putting two dogs down within months of each other TWICE, is not something I want to repeat, it was gut wrenching

So I will be waiting a couple more years for the one I'm watching to grow out and see how she fairs

[Holmeshx2]

OH YAY one I can personally comment on!! DONT DO IT and RUNNNN!!!!!

Jinx is 14 months old and day to day she is great and knows her obedience well can take her to the stores and she is great etc..

A few months back (like 2) we (I since hubby was deployed) fostered a 12 week old pup... KILL ME!!! Jinx suddenly didn't know commands anymore would jump like a kangaroo shake and scream like a banshee at the door while I was getting ready to take the puppy out etc... OMG you could not pay me enough to handle that again. Now a few months later and more training we have another foster pup (around 4-5 months old) the first few days I would sit in the car just to have some peace and quiet... thankfully it is a bit better but still super stressful because Jinx wants to rough house and is so much bigger but still so much puppy herself its easier because this pup is alot better with potty training and holding it and as much as I love this little foster no way in hades will I be getting my own pup anytime soon. Every time we foster a pup I add an extra year onto how old Jinx has to be before we bring another pup into this house!

[Jen&Bear]

Haha ok guys thanks
I initially had 2 and omg it was crazy
But it was so that they could keep each other company if i was out
It only last 2 weeks and I could not handle 2 so the breeder took his bro back
So then i thought ok...let me get the hang of one (2 was IMPOSSIBLE) and then when he is a little older i can get him a friend

So not as easy as it sounds huh lol

For argument sake - what if i ended up keeping his bro. Would it be diff as opposed to diff ages or would it have turned out the same ?

Thanks.....i think i will abandon that idea for now

[Shaina]

A lot of breeders won't sell littermates to an owner. It is just too hard and can cause a lot of issues down the road. I've seen quite a few people with littermates that have constant fights between the two and have just put themselves in a bad situation.

[llombardo]

I have a seven year old, then comes a two year old, and a 5 month old. Due to size the seven year will live a little longer, which brings the other two pretty close to being right behind her when the time comes I'm just enjoying them now and believe me they enjoy each other very loudly

[selzer]

Originally Posted by Jen&Bear

Haha ok guys thanks

For argument sake - what if i ended up keeping his bro. Would it be diff as opposed to diff ages or would it have turned out the same ?

Thanks.....i think i will abandon that idea for now

Littermates can work out, or they can be awful. Why there are inter-pack squabbles is when the pack hierarchy is not clear to all the members. If you have a confident seven year old natural leader dog, and bring in a puppy, the puppy will figure it out pretty quick and except the older dog as leader and fall into the follower position. And then you have no problem. With a seven year span, a pup raised from eight weeks who is a natural leader might do fine too. And even a natural leader pup might do fine if the older dog is a follower dog, just because of the difference in power, and somewhat the way the humans in the household manage things.

The problems arise when you have dogs that are close in age because they are more likely not to be established.

Good leaders do not fight, or do it rarely, they rule by their body language, their bearing. Fighting wastes resources, and causes injuries. I do not think dogs capable of thinking of such things, but a good leader does not avoid fights, they walk in expecting not to be opposed and by and far they are not. It is the beta dogs, the dogs jockeying for the number two and three and four spots that are more likely to get into squabbles, and that usually when the leader is weak.

Think of it this way. If your ability to eat depended more on your brawn then your brain, who are you going to squabble with for your share, the dude that looks like Hercules, or the dude that looks like Pee Wee Herman? You with your human thought process are going to go for the one that you feel you have the best shot at winning with, that is going to be the one that is close to or below your strength and skill. Dogs have a different measure of strength and skill, but dogs that are close in power are much more likely to fight. Littermates can be very likely to fight.

Littermates can have other problems as well. It is hard to give two puppies a good amount of socialization and training, and doing two at once generally means neither gets enough. House training two at once is particularly fun. And when they have lived their entire lives together, often when one goes, the other follows.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by Jen&Bear

Haha ok guys thanks
I initially had 2 and omg it was crazy
But it was so that they could keep each other company if i was out
It only last 2 weeks and I could not handle 2 so the breeder took his bro back
So then i thought ok...let me get the hang of one (2 was IMPOSSIBLE) and then when he is a little older i can get him a friend

So not as easy as it sounds huh lol

For argument sake - what if i ended up keeping his bro. Would it be diff as opposed to diff ages or would it have turned out the same ?

Thanks.....i think i will abandon that idea for now

I'm a little confused by your post? You said you tried it, it was crazy and breeder took the male back... but then you say what if you keep the male (brother) ? As in, take it back from the breeder it was returned to? I don't think I'm understanding that right?

I wouldn't even attempt it, if what I said above is what you mean. The "crazy" you're referring to would continue to be crazy. They're just too close in age. Your entire life would have to be devoted to keeping them separated, training separate, etc and so on. They could fight, or they could bond to each other and to heck with you.

Don't do this thing only for the sake of a playmate. A dog doesn't need a playmate. You'll have better luck training a single dog to properly behave in the house, too. Give it more time to add another.

I had littermates here for about 3-4 days.... I thought I'd go insane. (Wasn't by choice.) I'd never, ever, ever try that again.