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Old 02-24-2010, 07:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy 8 months and still jumping up and biting

Kiai is 8 months old now and still jumping up and grabbing my arms or legs.

I started asking here when he was four months old and the advice I got was that it was normal puppy play. Igore him and he will stop in a few months. At four months it was possible to ignore him unless he was to rough. Now it cant be ignored.

Other advice I got was to grab him by the collar and put him in the crate when he started to bite. That hasn't really worked either.

I use a flat nylon collar. I have one of those lupine collars with two clips. One is a partial choke,but its not real tight. That seems to help control him sometimes. If he gets my hand in his mouth he doesn't bite hard. He bites harder on my jacket.

He will be ok on a walk or playing fetch then turn at me and start to jump at my arms. Ofen its when the walk is over and he doesn't really want to go in yet. I have to grab his collar or scruff and get control to bring him in.

So, where do I go from here. He's getting bigger.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Redirect. I know it sounds easier than it is. I have a nearly 6 month old myself.
It is better when I don't get excited/annoyed/bothered - that is if I can stay calm, put Ms. PIA in her crate (she hops in willingly because it is usually rewarded with a tasty morsel - actually she runs to her crate when the word "IN" is spoken) to calm down. Or I do not pull my hand/arm/other body part away or give any action on it. Being calm (me being calm) with the jumping helps, too. Sometimes she will come to me if I am setting & half climb onto my lap. She gets some petting and a bit of voice from me and gets a toy for us to play with. I have found that handling this with calm, giving some attention, has made the behavior calmer and calmer.
I know it sounds nuts but this has been working.

We also do a lot of fetch & tug - I throw the object, she fetches it, we tug for a bit and perhaps I throw it again or perhaps she "wins" the tug game & we tug a bit more before I get to throw it again.

I've been carrying tasty treats on walks because mine needs to focus on me when cars go past rather than wanting to chase the moving object. Sometimes she will grab the leash and shake it. She is slowly growing out of that but it is slow because I let her substitute that for one of my body parts in mouthing. It is OK. It is fading. Now it is usually a precursor to defecation or urination. (She will get a bit mouthy when she needs to go out, too. - took dumber-n-a-post here a while to figure that one out...)

So yes, redirect and it will be overcome. Slowly. But in a big step and a time with wide spaces between them.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Do you practice NILIF with him? You do need to assert your leadership with him so he knows when his behavior is inappropriate.
Work on obedience commands after you've played with him, to get some of his energy out.
Your puppy is trying to engage you in play from the sound of it.
My pup is almost a year and we play lots of tug, fetch
After we play, then we do some obedience, play again, and more obedience...mixing it up so I don't lose his interest.

If he is doing this when you are out and about, it can be a sign of insecurity.
Bring treats or a high value toy and re-direct the behavior. Use a key word (off) when he is jumping up on you, and make him sit or platz til he calms. Praise him!
Some pups need to carry a "pacifier"(ball, or toy) so they can work some of their energy out thru chewing. It really helps!
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have been using one of those rope balls for tuging. I use that at the end of the walk when he starts to jump up and it works sometimes. I was told that tug is not good because it can make them more dominant or aggressive.

?
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Igore him and he will stop in a few months. At four months it was possible to ignore him unless he was to rough. Now it cant be ignored.

Other advice I got was to grab him by the collar and put him in the crate when he started to bite. That hasn't really worked either.
Wow, sorry those were the only recommendations you got. THey also would NOT have worked for me.

NO ONE I know uses the 'scruff your dog and punish him by crating' to stop our pups when they try to play with us and bite too hard. No one. Makes the crate a punishment (HUGE NO NO in all crate training). And doesn't work.

If our dogs want to PLAY, but only know how to PLAY the way that worked with their mom and littermates, then that darn mouth is coming for you when they want to PLAY. So the problem isn't them at all.

The problem is WE need to teach them a NEW way to play. We want the bonding and fun our pups get when they PLAY with us. You are so not alone with this common issue we have a sticky in the puppy section to help http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...nhibition.html

I've hardly ever had 'ignoring' a problem work either. So ignoring when my pup jumps up (which, BTW is another normal play/greeting behavior) and expect it to stop is also bad info in my book. Generally, if you can turn around and give your back to the puppy so they learn that jumping up may NOT give them the desired result (to greet your face with a lick the SAME WAY they greet their mom/littermates). But if they quiet (4 on the floor) then you will turn and quietly pet them and give them the attention they are craving.

Use the word 'off' NOT 'down' during this jumping issue problem solving. Down means something different.

How are the dog classes going? What does your instructor recommend? Does your pup also jump up on everyone at class?
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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How solid is he on the "sit" command? There are multiple ways that people use to train the "off" command, and keep pups from biting and nipping fingers. For as many replies as you get, you will probably get that many suggestions. My best advice to you is to pick the one that you are most comfortable with training method/theory wise, and give it an honest shot. It can be tempting to try something new every day because jumpers can be frustrating!

My personal advice to you is to ensure you have a very solid sit command on your dog. Ignoring only works to an extent. You can ignore as long as the day is, but some dogs just don't give up. And if they do, the minute you pet them because you think they are calm, they grow pogo sticks for legs again. I am not and never will be a "postive only" theory person. If you ignore bad behavior like this, you are reinforcing the behavior by not correcting it, IMHO.

For pups, treat training isn't a bad thing. Work hard on the sit command. This, IMHO, is the key to jumping problems. The dog doesn't respect you, or your space, if there is no alternate command you have no control other than physically holding the dog away (which just makes them push harder towards you often times). If your dog has a solid "sit" (with an IMPLIED at least brief 'stay') you can get this under control. If the dog can't solidly sit at 8 months, you have more work to do on leash before off leash will begin.

When your pup jumps, immediately give a loud verbal command of "OFF", do not turn away (your are the leader, the leader does not turn away), and immediately issue the command to sit. One command, one time. Your dog heard you. Nothing more annoying than someone saying "sit, sit, sit, I said SIT, no...sit!" If your dog does not immediately sit, one hand on the collar, one on the butt (not back) and make them sit.

Verbally praise for the desired behavior (the sit) and repeat as necessary each time the dog gets up. If you are VERY consistant and firm, your dog will understand that you are not playing around, and he must sit when told to do so.

Biting/nipping - by 8 months, I will take their mouth in my hands and give a loud verbal command of "no." Redirecting with toys is great, and works on many dogs. But if your dog is not responding to this or you are in any way confused about how it works correctly, I'd work on getting the immediate mouthing under control before the dogs mouths the wrong person. By 8 months, I like them to understand their mouth is not to be placed on my body or anyone elses. It is the one thing I don't allow from day one, but by 8 months your pup has established this behavior and you will need to be a little firmer about correcting it.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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We had the same problem with fletcher when she was younger but we managed to knock it on the head the following ways:

Jumping up - as soon as she jumped up on us, we turned away sharply so she kind of fell off us, and looked up in the air to avoid eye contact and say absolutely nothing. She would run around to the front and jump again so we turned again and walked away. No words, no eye contact. Out of the door and close it if we had to. Then when she was calm again we came back in and if she jumped up again, repeated the same. She eventually got the message that jumping up meant she got no attention and got left on her own, but sitting is good and gets a reward (attention). Now she hardly ever jumps up - even when new people arrive at the house (you need to make sure they completely ignore her when they come in until she is calm too). Sometimes she still runs around them like crazy, runs off to find her toy (see below) then comes back for another run around, before she remembers that the way to get attention is to sit and be calm. Only once she is sitting or led down away from us do we/the person arriving then call her over to us and tell her to sit before we pat her. With some people who come to the house regularly, she pretty much goes off and sits straight away waiting to be called over to say hi cos she knows the running around won't work, but she always tests new people!

Biting/Mouthing - we used the redirection technique - every time she put part of us in her mouth we told her no and replaced it with a toy. Then when she understood what toy was (because we would tell her 'toy' or 'ball' when playing with it so she made the link), we told her 'No - go find your toy' sharply whenever she mouthed/bit us. Now if she ever mouths us (it was very rarely up until she hit the ratbag teenager phase recently!) we tell her to go find the toy/ball and she'll go off and find a tug or ball and bring it back to play with. When she has something in her mouth, our arm/hands couldn't be in there too! It also shows them that the only way to get us to play is to bring a toy/ball and that chewing on us gets them nowhere!

It's definately not easy (and now we're dealing with bratty teenager problems erg!), but that's what worked for us on the jumping/biting problems. Good luck!
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Rerun, great advice on the jumping and nipping.

Thank you for that. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether commands should be taught with or without treats? I took my dog Evan to basic dog training and they trained with treats. He learns extremely fast, but really only wants to follow commands like "sit" if he knows there is a treat in it for him. He's 7 months old.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Treats are great if your dog is food driven, you can fade them later, but at 7 months you should mix up treats with praise reward, too.
Balls on strings are another way to engage/reward. Keeping the pup engaged is most important
Scroll down this link for some free clips on engagement and other training techniques:
http://leerburg.com/flix/
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