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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Slippery Elm does not kill parasites.
My apologies I meant damascous earth. I think that's how you spell it. Got confused on the two.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Just wanted to give an update. We have now found out after an emergency trip to the vet he has picked up something and it made him sick. Friday evening he had watery diarrhea and vomiting most of the night. He is now on 3 different medications that seem to be working well. We are not sure what the virus is, because it is not showing up in blood work or in fecal tests so we're doing trial and error here. But fingers crossed that it's working so far. He is on light exercise, which means no walks until we figure it out, because too much exercise seems to aggravate his belly too much and makes the diarrhea worse.

For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach as well.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 02:14 PM
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For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach as well.
Lamb is also fatty (21.3%). I'd do the Elk which is low in fat (7.3%) until you get the stomach issues squared away, then try another protein with higher fat content for one of his meals per day to see how he handles it.


Are you giving a Digestive Enzyme to help him assimilate his food properly?
This one is from Canada: Sunday Sundae (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz


If you use the Slippery Elm, it is given about an hour or more before feeding.

Hope he feels better!
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 02:44 PM
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Pork is very fatty, I only feed it twice a week max. My staples are chicken and beef with pork, turkey, duck, salmon, and rabbit on a regular rotation. So one day chicken, one day beef, one day turkey, one day chicken, one day salmon, etc

It's important to have variety in a raw diet, at least three protein minimum unless there's a medical reason (allergy, etc)
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2016 View Post
Just wanted to give an update. We have now found out after an emergency trip to the vet he has picked up something and it made him sick. Friday evening he had watery diarrhea and vomiting most of the night. He is now on 3 different medications that seem to be working well. We are not sure what the virus is, because it is not showing up in blood work or in fecal tests so we're doing trial and error here. But fingers crossed that it's working so far. He is on light exercise, which means no walks until we figure it out, because too much exercise seems to aggravate his belly too much and makes the diarrhea worse.

For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach as well.

So I"m just going to throw this out there....You don't know why this puppy is having issues. I'm a raw feeder. My dog was weaned on raw and has never had kibble. But in your case, I think I would put him on a good sensitive stomach dog food from the vet to settle his GI tract down. Once that is fixed, then go forward.




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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone. Just to answer a couple of things.

Quote:
Pork is very fatty, I only feed it twice a week max. My staples are chicken and beef with pork, turkey, duck, salmon, and rabbit on a regular rotation. So one day chicken, one day beef, one day turkey, one day chicken, one day salmon, etc

It's important to have variety in a raw diet, at least three protein minimum unless there's a medical reason (allergy, etc)
I totally agree pork is too fatty so I'm going to stay away from it from now on. Unfortunately I can't afford to feed him all those at once. That would run me WAY too much money. He's on two and we switch up the proteins after the batch is gone. The vet has ok'd this. Right now it will be chicken and lamb, and then when the lamb is gone I'll probably switch it to something else. I would love to be able to give him more variety every day, but unfortunately I can't right now. Especially after the emergency visits to the vet and his daycare. He's gaining weight and is exactly the right size for his build according to the vet.
Quote:
So I"m just going to throw this out there....You don't know why this puppy is having issues. I'm a raw feeder. My dog was weaned on raw and has never had kibble. But in your case, I think I would put him on a good sensitive stomach dog food from the vet to settle his GI tract down. Once that is fixed, then go forward.
He was on kibble before and he has too many reactions to kibble, which is why we switched him to raw. Even the vet GI foods bothered him. The raw food immediately helped when we put him on it initially. His diarrhea stopped the very same day, so I would like to avoid putting him back on kibble for as long as possible because we don't think it will make the situation any better. We have since found out that it's not his food bothering him, he has a virus or bug of some kind. So far the diarrhea has stopped so I'm hoping that he will be all better in a few more days.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 05:05 PM
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I feed mine Carnivora (dinner version, with 10% added vegetables). I posted in several related and unrelated topics already - he wouldn't eat kibble and had troubles eating when I brought him at 4months of age. He is on Carnivora now for several months and never felt better.
I started with chicken and went through all of them - Bison is his favorite and his poop is great! I thought they are all the same price (lol! Shows how much I care about it), but as long as he eats, I'm very happy and will pay any price.

I noticed on other flavors he would have softer stool at times, and not all of it, just parts. But on bison he is doing extremely well.

For 9 months old here is my schedule:
- Wake up at 5:15am, give him fresh water, pull 2 patties out and put into a sink with hot water (inside a deep plate, so it just floats), and we go for the morning walk (takes about 15-2- minutes). But I feed him around 7 am.
Before you jump to conclusions, once a week I drop him off at the doggy daycare, and on those days I feed him almost as soon as we are back from the morning walk (around 5:30) because we leave at 6:30-6:40 and I want to give him at least an hour to settle before the car ride - makes no difference and he does just fine.

- in the evening, his second and last meal, I give him 1 patty instead of 2, and after the meal I give him a meaty elk or bison neck to work his jaw muscles, keep his teeth clean, and he loves to spend some alone time with that bone. After that sometimes I give him chicken necks (3-4 pieces) as a treat.

Dogs' stomachs are acidic (-2 or -4 level, something like that) and are designed to digest bones - don't be afraid of it. Especially Carnivora patties have them as small ground pieces.

One thing to note, make sure the food is room temperature (more or less), and I always add half of glass of tap (cold) water. It's really soft and he just licks it all away. He loves it so much and every time he even licks the plate clean, the goof

In addition, after the evening (before bed time) grooming session, we touch ears, paws, "show teeth" and brush him - he gets one raw egg.

His stool is great and he loves his meals. His coat looks healthy and shiney, his skin is super clean and he smells very nice and definitely not like a dog. Just very nice clean smell. I don't bathe him either.

I did start adding a patty of raw salmon every other day for skin (it's kind of dry here and he doesn't like pure salmon oil, but eats raw fish). And doesn't matter what I feed from what I mentioned, he doesn't have any loose stool.

Same as in mornings, in evenings I take the patty out to thaw and we go for a walk (the evening one takes about 40min-1.5hour, depending on the route. When we are back, I eat first (he rests for 15-20 minutes after the walk), and then I feed him.
We just walk in our walks, no running. He runs the whole day once a week at the daycare to blow off some steam. But we walk on a daily basis for 10-12km during weekdays and 15-20km on weekends. He is very fit and muscular, will be 10 months in 5 days and weighs 34.5kg (around 75.8 pounds?). I'm definitely happy with his schedule and health, and so is he.

Hopefully some of this info helps and let me know if i can answer any other questions you might have - will be more than happy if i know the answers.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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I feed mine Carnivora (dinner version, with 10% added vegetables). I posted in several related and unrelated topics already - he wouldn't eat kibble and had troubles eating when I brought him at 4months of age. He is on Carnivora now for several months and never felt better.
I started with chicken and went through all of them - Bison is his favorite and his poop is great! I thought they are all the same price (lol! Shows how much I care about it), but as long as he eats, I'm very happy and will pay any price.

I noticed on other flavors he would have softer stool at times, and not all of it, just parts. But on bison he is doing extremely well.

For 9 months old here is my schedule:
- Wake up at 5:15am, give him fresh water, pull 2 patties out and put into a sink with hot water (inside a deep plate, so it just floats), and we go for the morning walk (takes about 15-2- minutes). But I feed him around 7 am.
Before you jump to conclusions, once a week I drop him off at the doggy daycare, and on those days I feed him almost as soon as we are back from the morning walk (around 5:30) because we leave at 6:30-6:40 and I want to give him at least an hour to settle before the car ride - makes no difference and he does just fine.

- in the evening, his second and last meal, I give him 1 patty instead of 2, and after the meal I give him a meaty elk or bison neck to work his jaw muscles, keep his teeth clean, and he loves to spend some alone time with that bone. After that sometimes I give him chicken necks (3-4 pieces) as a treat.

Dogs' stomachs are acidic (-2 or -4 level, something like that) and are designed to digest bones - don't be afraid of it. Especially Carnivora patties have them as small ground pieces.

One thing to note, make sure the food is room temperature (more or less), and I always add half of glass of tap (cold) water. It's really soft and he just licks it all away. He loves it so much and every time he even licks the plate clean, the goof

In addition, after the evening (before bed time) grooming session, we touch ears, paws, "show teeth" and brush him - he gets one raw egg.

His stool is great and he loves his meals. His coat looks healthy and shiney, his skin is super clean and he smells very nice and definitely not like a dog. Just very nice clean smell. I don't bathe him either.

I did start adding a patty of raw salmon every other day for skin (it's kind of dry here and he doesn't like pure salmon oil, but eats raw fish). And doesn't matter what I feed from what I mentioned, he doesn't have any loose stool.

Same as in mornings, in evenings I take the patty out to thaw and we go for a walk (the evening one takes about 40min-1.5hour, depending on the route. When we are back, I eat first (he rests for 15-20 minutes after the walk), and then I feed him.
We just walk in our walks, no running. He runs the whole day once a week at the daycare to blow off some steam. But we walk on a daily basis for 10-12km during weekdays and 15-20km on weekends. He is very fit and muscular, will be 10 months in 5 days and weighs 34.5kg (around 75.8 pounds?). I'm definitely happy with his schedule and health, and so is he.

Hopefully some of this info helps and let me know if i can answer any other questions you might have - will be more than happy if i know the answers.
He sounds like a very happy and healthy dog. Our routine is a bit less structured but mostly the same:

Up at 6:45, out to pee and poop and then inside to eat. He gets 1 chicken in the morning, 1 of the other protein in lunch and then 1 chicken at supper. For now. When I get the new protein this week I'll switch it so that he only gets one chicken a day. We do our walks at night because in the morning he never wants to walk. Instead I put him on a long lead that's attached to the deck and let him run around our back yard. He loves it, and it tires him out. He gets to do that for about 35-40 minutes and then inside so I can get ready for work. When I get home from work I feed him, let him pee and poop and then wait a bit before we go on a walk. Sometimes, he doesn't want to walk so we play outside in the back yard and I'll get him to chase a ball or run around with him. He goes to daycare once or twice a week and that really helps him blow off some steam.

His poops are not great right this second because of whatever he has picked up, but normally they're great. No problems. I only had to bath him once because he rolled in poop at the daycare by mistake and it was caked all over him. Not fun let me tell you. How did your dog do on lamb? Ok or was it still too fatty?
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 08:32 AM
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He sounds like a very happy and healthy dog. Our routine is a bit less structured but mostly the same:

Up at 6:45, out to pee and poop and then inside to eat. He gets 1 chicken in the morning, 1 of the other protein in lunch and then 1 chicken at supper. For now. When I get the new protein this week I'll switch it so that he only gets one chicken a day. We do our walks at night because in the morning he never wants to walk. Instead I put him on a long lead that's attached to the deck and let him run around our back yard. He loves it, and it tires him out. He gets to do that for about 35-40 minutes and then inside so I can get ready for work. When I get home from work I feed him, let him pee and poop and then wait a bit before we go on a walk. Sometimes, he doesn't want to walk so we play outside in the back yard and I'll get him to chase a ball or run around with him. He goes to daycare once or twice a week and that really helps him blow off some steam.

His poops are not great right this second because of whatever he has picked up, but normally they're great. No problems. I only had to bath him once because he rolled in poop at the daycare by mistake and it was caked all over him. Not fun let me tell you. How did your dog do on lamb? Ok or was it still too fatty?
Actually I haven't tried lamb. We did chicken, turkey, pork, beef and bison. With each one he had some sort of side effect (mucous-y covered stool, or some of it a bit loose). With bison - he absolutely loves it and his stool is rock solid every single time.
Yes! I really like having him at the daycare. I still worry of course so that there is no some aggressive dog gets into a fight with him cuz he is just such a sweet boy and only wants to play. But these guys are good and they watch who they place him with. Mine is also intact, so they watch to make sure there is no other dominant intact male in the pack.

If you are willing to try, maybe don't let him run on his own before the meal in the morning and do take him for a walk instead. Make it fun for him during walks, change pace, jog for a few feet and slow down then back to normal, do turns as you walk, circles, figure 8, all these little things to make walks more fun for him. I never let mine run out on his own and watch him like a hawk during walks - don't let him eat anything off the ground (now much less than used to, but he does pick up something on occasion). Any time he is unsupervised, there is a chance they'll swallow something that may upset their stomach.
Of course I always let him have the salad bar or smell a flower.. lol! He apparently has a very sensitive nature and likes to stop and smell a nice flower
If you walk him and don't let him run, he still gets the exercise but in a calmer way, especially if you feed him pretty much right after.

Another thing to add to "he doesn't want to walk" - he doesn't call the shots Take him for a walk, lead him. Be kind with him but firm, put the collar on and off we go. Bring a tiny treat or two and reward for good things that he does during walks.
We almost never run during our walks and we stopped going to the dog park because of irresponsible owners , but he is pure muscle and never showed any destructive behavior inside the house - as long as there is enough, walks are a very good exercise and much easier on the fragile developing bones.
Maybe he is eating bugs while outside that you never see and some of them are not lethal enough to cause serious damage, but could cause upset stomach or may get lodged in the airway or throat (bug's hard shell wings and etc.). THIS part I've never had a personal experience, but from reading other sites and forums, things like that could cause issues. He may also pick up some dirt while trying to munch on grass, or rabbit's poop.. lol.
Do you have rabbits in your area? I taught mine and he ignores it now, but for dogs it's also a "source of food" because of how rabbit's digestive system is designed, they don't digest everything on the first go and there are nutrients and stuff left for the second round (gross! haha). Dogs smell food leftovers in there and like picking it up. But also rabbits may have diseases and cause upset stomach or more serious things. Just one more reason why I would rather supervise my pup all the time until he gets a hand of what is good and what is not. I kinda want to train him so he asks me if it's ok to pick up and only do it when allowed.
Anyways, when you said you are getting "new protein", what do you mean by that? Just different flavor and still Carnivora or something else?

Maybe also try adding 1/4 of glass of goat milk (i buy from health foods store) - it has natural enzymes and every little bit is good about it for dogs. That may also help.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great advice! I have tried him out on walks in the mornings, but I spend more time trying to get him to follow me instead of pulling on his leash to go back home. I have tired treats, being firm and basically having to yank him along. I have a shoulder injury so I can't yank all the time or else I will damage it again and then won't be able to walk him at all. However, in the morning, he goes on the lead and then we go in the back yard and do some training and throwing a ball or something instead. I'll see if I can try to get him to go for a walk again in the morning before he eats and see how he does. No rabbits around our house or neighborhood, but we did have deer at one point so I was keeping him away from those areas where I know they like to congregate just in case. We had one instance where he ate one pellet of deer poop but he hasn't since because we've been working on the "leave it" command just to be on the safe side.

New protein meant the same carnivore brand, but switch up the kinds we get. He was on pork and chicken, we're going to switch to chicken and lamb for the next batch and then we'll switch it up again probably when that batch runs out. We live across the country from you in the Maritimes so we have to pay more for tax and shipping and everything which drives the prices up for everything, making it harder for me to buy the more expensive kinds right now. In the future sure, but with all the vet bills, I have to try and save some money on it right now.

I love him going to daycare because he's learning to play with the other dogs a lot better. We had an issue with him going after some little dogs a bit too roughly, but now he's doing fantastic and has learned his boundaries! He's still very young so he hasn't hit sexual maturity yet, but the daycare have a rule that they have to be neutered by 10 months to still go. I'm going to keep him in until he's 10 months, but don't want to neuter him that early. But so far he's doing very well! The best part about the daycare is that they also host all his training classes, and the trainer worked with K9 dogs in Ontario for about 15-20 years and knows the GSD breed so well that she knows how to make Ronin mind and gives me great tips on how to make him listen and training tips that work for him because he can be so stubborn and rambunctious at times.

This is a picture of him. He's 5 months and 48 pounds as of Friday afternoon.
Raw Food Diet Question-ronin-after-groomers.jpg
Raw Food Diet Question-ronin-1.jpg
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