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Old 07-14-2014, 02:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default First week feeding raw?

I have SO many questions. After dealing with a bout of a very upset tummy and a bad case of the itches, I have decided that I'm switching to raw. I went to the store tonight and stood in the meat department for a good 10 minutes before I realized I was in over my head. I'm sure it all looks overwhelming when you first start!
Atticus is currently 9 weeks and 17 pounds. His sire was around 90 and dam around 75. So if I figure 3% of projected adult weight, let's say 80, he would get roughly 2.5 lbs per day, correct?
Is it recommended to do it in three meals at his age? I know chicken should be the staple when first transitioning. What's a good meal plan for the first week?
Should I add pumpkin, yogurt/kefir, fish oil, joint supplements this early? What about eggs or veggies? I know there are many differing opinions on fruits and veggies so any input is appreciated!
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Three meals per day at his age and regulate his body condition to determine if he needs more or less. For the first week I usually feed things like chicken necks, chicken quarters, maaaybe chicken wings if you watch closely and they don't inhale them. If he has a tendency to want to inhale, stick with the bigger chicken quarters. If they give him runny poop, take the skin off - the extra fat can sometimes cause runs. It stays pretty basic, no organs until you have healthy,firm poops that first week. Then the next week I'll start adding in TINY portions of liver with the meals every day. Build up the amount of liver until you have the usual ratio of bone to muscle to organ - 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organ. Then you can start adding in different chicken organs (heart, giblets, feet, lungs, etc).

I usually keep dogs just starting raw on plain chicken for about 2.5 weeks before adding in any other types of meat. And from there I usually go to beef or pork.

Additives are largely up to you. I feed prey model raw, which does not include fruits or veggies as part of a regular meal plan. Now, that doesn't mean my dog never gets fruits or veggies (no one denies Kaiju his frozen baby carrots), he gets them as treats. They're just not a regular part of his diet. I would wait until you have healthy poop and he is eating full raw meals (bone, muscle, and organ) before putting in additives, just because you need to know that poop is normal because the meat is balanced, not just because he's also eating pumpkin.

Once he is eating full meals, you can add nothing or several things. I personally like to add a whole raw egg, cold-pressed coconut oil, goat milk, and occasionally some plain yogurt. I added a multivitamin plus hip/joint care supplement for a while, but just ended up feeling it was unnecessary, especially when feeding things like chicken feet and cow snouts that are so naturally rich in glucosamine and chondroitin.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Awesome thank you for the info! So how do I figure out the percentage of bone that is in each item? I think that's throwing me off the most.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Props to you for going raw... i have always wanted too but never find the courage.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
Awesome thank you for the info! So how do I figure out the percentage of bone that is in each item? I think that's throwing me off the most.

I found this on a raw feeding forum...sounds reasonable.

Chicken backs are 44% bone.
Breasts are 20% bone.
Quarters 35% bone.
All white meat total is 28% bone.
Whole chicken (broilers & fryers) are 31%.
Whole roasting chickens are 27%.
Cornish game hens are 39% bone.
Wings are 46% and necks are 36% bone.
drumstick is 33% and thigh 21% bone
Turkey necks are 42% bone
Turkey backs are 40% bone
Turkey wings are 33% bone

All these figures are per UDSA web site.

Here's a link to some other percentages...differ slightly but close enough.

Abyssinian Homepage - Nutrition

Let us know how it goes with the new diet and any changes you notice.


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Old 07-15-2014, 09:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Bone And Food Values For Raw Feeding Dogs | Dogs Naturally Magazine
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Props to you for going raw... i have always wanted too but never find the courage.
I started out with prepared diets and started to supplement with whole raw foods that I do myself. I still occasionally feed a prepared blend.

It was a way to get started without worrying about bones and balancing the diet.

Give it a try! My only regret is not finding the courage to try it sooner. My dog had a chronically upset tummy on kibble, within 24 hours of going to raw it was better.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
I found this on a raw feeding forum...sounds reasonable.

Chicken backs are 44% bone.
Breasts are 20% bone.
Quarters 35% bone.
All white meat total is 28% bone.
Whole chicken (broilers & fryers) are 31%.
Whole roasting chickens are 27%.
Cornish game hens are 39% bone.
Wings are 46% and necks are 36% bone.
drumstick is 33% and thigh 21% bone
Turkey necks are 42% bone
Turkey backs are 40% bone
Turkey wings are 33% bone

All these figures are per UDSA web site.

Here's a link to some other percentages...differ slightly but close enough.

Abyssinian Homepage - Nutrition

Let us know how it goes with the new diet and any changes you notice.


SuperG
Thank you for the info and link! I have a question that is probably going to sound incredibly simple and I should probably be able to figure it out on my own but I am HORRIBLE at math and calculations.
So, if a chicken quarter is about 35% bone, that makes it 65% meat. From there how do I figure out how much more bone or meat I need to make the 80/10/10? If I do 2.5% of adult weight, I'm looking at about 2.2 lbs a day. So from that idea, how do I figure the weight and amounts of bone, meat and organ I need to give, or at least ballpark it to end up evening out at the end of the week.
I am probably really overthinking all of this but I'm trying to cover all my bases before I start him on it to make sure I've got it all handled and know exactly what I'm doing.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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After some nasty itchies and our 8 month old just not loving his kibble, we are also on our first week of raw and all is going great. We always had to coax him to eat his kibble and he would take forever (and make a huge mess!)! He LOVES his raw chicken!

Because we suspect allergies as the source of his itchies, we are keeping all treats grain free for now and slowly introducing new protein sources to the raw. Honestly I haven't calculated any meat/bone ratios yet. I think with boned chicken, it just is what it i (I just solely focus on the weight of the meat). I bought a pack of liver and gizzards and threw in a couple of those with each meal and he has tolerated it wonderfully. I think I will pay more attention to bone ratios when I add other meats. I plan to also add in a can of sardines per week for the fish oil.

We have always given a tablespoon of plain Greek yogurt and we are still giving that. As far as supplements, another forum member (Sunflowers) recommended Feed-sentinels as a supplement. I ordered that yesterday so will add that in as soon as it arrives.

I am so happy that our pup is enjoying his meals now!! Good luck! Also check out the stickies on the BARF forum on this site. Lots of "meal plans" there!

Last edited by Tratkins; 07-16-2014 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
Thank you for the info and link! I have a question that is probably going to sound incredibly simple and I should probably be able to figure it out on my own but I am HORRIBLE at math and calculations.
So, if a chicken quarter is about 35% bone, that makes it 65% meat. From there how do I figure out how much more bone or meat I need to make the 80/10/10? If I do 2.5% of adult weight, I'm looking at about 2.2 lbs a day. So from that idea, how do I figure the weight and amounts of bone, meat and organ I need to give, or at least ballpark it to end up evening out at the end of the week.
I am probably really overthinking all of this but I'm trying to cover all my bases before I start him on it to make sure I've got it all handled and know exactly what I'm doing.
I would break it into ounces. So total ounces your dog needs per day is about 35. 80% muscle will be 28 ounces, 10% bone will be 3.5 ounces, and 10% organ will be 3.5 ounces. So let's say the chicken quarter I picked up at the store is about 16 ounces. It is 35% bone, so 5.6 ounces of bone and 65% meat, so 10.4 ounces of meat.

I actually don't put this much thought into Kaiju's meals normally. I get an idea of about how many ounces would be in a chicken quarter/neck/back, estimate, and adjust from there. For example, making Kaiju's food today, I eyeballed a couple ounces of liver, grabbed two turkey necks, added a couple chunks of heart because I know the necks are bonier than quarters, and then threw in a small drumstick for good measure, keeping in mind that I wanted the total weight to be about a third of a pound. Once you get more used to it, it becomes easier to estimate.
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