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Old 02-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default NEW, slower growth rates, on RAW Diet vrs Dry Puppy Chow, and benefits...

I have done a bit of reading, searching, and listening to my Breeder over the months with years of research.. I approached the Raw Meat diet with an open mind, and now find some proof: It has really saved my 10 year old GSD Alpha Male Cody, that had been going down hill pretty quickly for the past year. There is a Testimonial in the Raw Diet section.. OK, I am convinced that the kibble is extremely toxic and allergenic to some dogs, without a doubt, first hand Testimonial from real time empirical testing... I am also convinced that it can prolong the life, extend the life, of some dogs.. My feeling is why chance it with the pup, he may react badly to the dry food. I am currently on about 90% Raw, beef meat and bone, some chicken, some lamb, some organ meats (now about 10% or less), and about 10% the dry kibble of the best I can find...

Now the contentious issues: While I am convinced a dog could and should live longer on the Raw diet, some dogs could get along fine on the really high grade dry kibble, with just some goodies now and then... This is a contentious issue, as proof would be hard to come by in that you would have to have a dry pool of a thousand and the Raw pool of a thousand of comparable genetics, to get a good basis for the study. One that may not be so contentious has been put forth by a few Vets who are favorable to RAW: That the growth rate on the Raw diet is slower, therefore more beneficial to joint and bone health long term... !!

They claim the competitive high protein (seen up to 28%) and larger calcium amounts, stimulate early powerful growth in the puppy... This is competitive puppy chow results that stimulates sales of their Brand, but it is not good for the Pup. Growth (they say) is genetically determined, and on the raw diet the growth rate is slower but much healthier.. Stronger joints and ligaments and so on...

There, if this can be substantiated it further pushes the argument for the Raw Meat and bone diet in Puppys from the beginning.
Comments?

Kind regards, loving my 13 (14 on saturday) week old Puppy, Black Working Dog sort, showing smarts beyond his age. Hope this is a help...

Last edited by lone Ranger; 02-07-2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Most large breed puppy foods have proteins in the 25% range but several are higher such as Orijen. Don't overfeed the dog and he won't grow fast. They are now designed for slow steady growth and not fast crazy growth.

There are plenty of raw feeders and plenty of kibble feeders. So don't worry about making an argument for or against; feed what you feel is right for your dog.

The main thing I think is important for a puppy fed raw is to ensure you have the right mix of bone and meat in the diet and the right kind of bone.

I am convinced a puppy of mine developed osteochondrosis from way too much calcium and vitamin C in her raw diet.......things have evolved since then towards more muscle meat than the original BARF book I think and we know puppies are not as good at managing calcium excesses as older dogs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm not going to buy into that argument. My wife's mixed breed has been on Pedigree forever. Good coat, never been sick, overweight, had a bad coat, etc. Grim's growth has been slow and steady on Innova, a lower protein food. Whatever your dog tolerates and does well on is the 'right food'. I've been told even by people selling dog food that it's more about genetics with growth rate than what they're fed.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Puppy Chow is about a bad as you can go. I mean if someone did a study about whether kids do better on a breakfast of cereal and toast, as opposed to toaster shakings, well, I don't think we should be surprised at the results.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
The main thing I think is important for a puppy fed raw is to ensure you have the right mix of bone and meat in the diet and the right kind of bone.
That would be my main concern, as well.
There's nothing wrong with a nice mid- to hi-quality puppy food, although for us, we'd feed adult Kirkland to a puppy before the puppy food for slower growth.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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im feeding raw, and while concerned, im not paranoid. its really not that hard, Im feeding my 9 week old a meal of about 8 ounces necks, then a meal of about a 8 ounce leg, and a meal of liver, yogurt, tripe, and a glucosamine/chondritin/msm supplement. and its not science, I can mix things up a bit and skip a meal etc. Im watching her weight which is important, off the top of my head she was 12.1 at 7 weeks and around 18 lbs today at 9 weeks.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, I AM concerned...
I am trying to do the absolute right thing by this pup. I live with regrets about my first two GSDs (still alive) and would like to minimize that with this pup..

I must admit, I am giving him the highest quality puppy chow I can get. I have moved through Royal Canin, and Science Diet, when I found out they were not the high grade they claimed... And am now doing Nutro, a 'natural' dog food here, first ingredient dried chicken meat, the brown rice, then all the other stuff and vitamins and so on..

I am trying to get him to eat as much of the Raw Meat and bones as possible, and supplementing with the high quality puppy chow as well, and cooked scrambled eggs, and other things...

Thank you all for you input, it is a tough call, made ever harder as some dogs can thrive on the dry food as they are all different. The Raw Meat and bone diet has saved my Alpha Male 10 y.o. "Cody", and even today is doing better still. He is happier, more active, coat has nearly stopped shedding, I thing he is making a comeback so to speak..

My new Pup was 13 kg at 12 weeks, about 28 lbs. Now at 14 weeks, I need to weigh him. I just thought that (14 week weight x 2 plus 10 lbs) might go out the window if the growth rate was slower on the Raw diet... Also, I am concerned that he might not be getting all the vitamins and such that he needs, another reason I am throwing in the handful or two of kibble...

Thank you, a concerned Parent (again) with my great Pup... Black GSD.
At 14 weeks, he is good on security, fetches, sits, stays for 10 seconds, and is starting to heel well on and off the lead.. Two good walks a day, fed twice a day, and play time mid day.. Love him..!!
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I bought pupsup hylasport and glanzen as supplements. Im not using the glanzen yet because I dont think a puppy on raw needs it, itd be overdose. Ill probably start at a low dose soon.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hello Volcano,

Sorry, but what are you talking about?? Down here on this little out of the way island, I have never heard of either one... You been smokin that stuff again Volcano???

No, seriously, what additives are you thinking about? And what do they do?/

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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http://www.pupsup.com/
They seem reputable in the horse world and they came out with some dog supplements recently.

Last edited by lhczth; 02-11-2013 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Fixed link
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