NEW, slower growth rates, on RAW Diet vrs Dry Puppy Chow, and benefits... - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-12-2013, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Wolf Caesar is now 18 weeks old, and just broke 50 lbs... I am hoping this idea that the RAW diet, the BARF diet, does result in slower growth rates, because I was hoping he would break the 100 lb mark... But I love him to death.. Before any of you jump on me for Breeding and desire for GSDs over 100 lbs, it is for a reason.. INTIMIDATION against wild dogs and dingos.. My Alpha GSD Cody has never been challenged in 10 years, he just puffs up and bluffs a big dog bark as he lunges down the hill at them and they are gone in a flash... Size matters in the Wolf Pack, believe it.. !!!

Anyway, a progress report on Caesar: He is amazing, and I credit his incredible learning curve to the RAW diet.. Now I don't know how this compares, but it is the best that I have seen.. At 18 weeks, 23 kg, he heels off leash, stops, sits, lays down, stays even when I go out of sight for about 10 seconds, stays longer if he can see me, tries to herd cattle, barks at anything strange and is responding to the "watch" command first stage of called for aggression, he recalls, knows some Spanish Commands (rare in Australia) of OK it is good, Leave it, and more.. In short I am not sure I have ever seen better with just casual training, at 18 weeks!!! Not a brag, just that I credit the RAW/BARF diet for his calm and willing disposition, which makes him learn fast and easy.

Feed him kibble in a meal, and he is all over the place with a short attention span and hyperactive...

Here he is playing with a Red Sable desexed (before I knew better) bitch Tonka, she is about 35 kg, sort of normal heavy show size, Wolf Caesar is 23 kg now at 18 weeks...



And here is my new Love, Wolf Caesars new Girlfriend, "Shaka"... Now only three weeks old, but will be started on the RAW/Barf diet at about 8-9 weeks..



My Breeder of Caesar recommended me, so I got "Pick Bitch" of the litter and I chose this fine girl... Now only three weeks, will be Bred if hip scores are very good on her and Caesar...

Ain't She cute?



The RAW/BARF diet saved my 10 year old Alpha, and Caesar has astonished me with his development, so this pup will be on the RAW diet as well...

Kind regards from Australia

Last edited by lone Ranger; 03-12-2013 at 12:12 AM. Reason: missing word
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 09:39 AM
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Misconceptions...

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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Most large breed puppy foods have proteins in the 25% range but several are higher such as Orijen. Don't overfeed the dog and he won't grow fast. They are now designed for slow steady growth and not fast crazy growth.

There are plenty of raw feeders and plenty of kibble feeders. So don't worry about making an argument for or against; feed what you feel is right for your dog.

The main thing I think is important for a puppy fed raw is to ensure you have the right mix of bone and meat in the diet and the right kind of bone.

I am convinced a puppy of mine developed osteochondrosis from way too much calcium and vitamin C in her raw diet.......things have evolved since then towards more muscle meat than the original BARF book I think and we know puppies are not as good at managing calcium excesses as older dogs.
1. Dogs produce their own Vitamin C. It's a water soluble vitamin and the excess is eliminated.
2. The worst that can happen with overfeeding calcium (bones) is harder stools. There is no link between excess calcium and osteochondritis.
3. Even though genetic factors influence the appearance or not of OC or HD, 70% is environmental (too much exercise as a puppy, obesity).

Just so that you don't feel guilty about something that had nothing to do with you feeding a species appropriate diet.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 04:18 PM
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My vet know that I am feeding raw. To make sure growth is going well I bring him in to the vet every few months to monitor weight and structure. So far that has worked out well.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jag View Post
Yeah, I'm not going to buy into that argument. My wife's mixed breed has been on Pedigree forever. Good coat, never been sick, overweight, had a bad coat, etc. Grim's growth has been slow and steady on Innova, a lower protein food. Whatever your dog tolerates and does well on is the 'right food'. I've been told even by people selling dog food that it's more about genetics with growth rate than what they're fed.
No, no, no. Kibble is far from a species appropriate diet. It's not about the owner feeling good, it's about the dog eating what is was meant to eat.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ndk1 View Post
1. Dogs produce their own Vitamin C. It's a water soluble vitamin and the excess is eliminated.
2. The worst that can happen with overfeeding calcium (bones) is harder stools. There is no link between excess calcium and osteochondritis.
3. Even though genetic factors influence the appearance or not of OC or HD, 70% is environmental (too much exercise as a puppy, obesity).

Just so that you don't feel guilty about something that had nothing to do with you feeding a species appropriate diet.
No, Hip dysplasia has been linked to excessive amounts of calcium.

Stop with the disinformation!
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 05:50 PM
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Hello. Barf diet is out. Wolves shake the contents of stomachs and intestines of their prey. They do not need the enzymes, as those enzymes are specific to herbivore diets.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 06:55 PM
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Did you know ndk1 that you are quoting an older post of yours and arguing with yourself?

About the shaking out the stomach content - that is only with large animal stomachs. With smaller prey, dogs eat the whole animal, stomach content and all. Wolves' diet is mostly small prey, with the occasional larger prey animal. I've watched my own dog catch grouse or a rabbit, and eat the entire animal, not leaving anything. Except for the grouse's head and wing-tip feathers, everything else, gone!

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 07:46 PM
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Cam has a mild case of HOD. So far I had him on raw. He was put, and I agreed, on a low calciumhosphorus kibble from Wellness Core puppy by the Osteo vet. Also limited calories so he is skinny. After a month now, he seems to be doing better and his gaits are improving and he hasn't limped for quite some time. If I will ever raise another pup, I am not starting with raw until the skeleton is fully grown. With HOD the cause has not been conclusive but I just don't want to take another chance. I am getting paranoid about this actually.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndk1 View Post
Hello. Barf diet is out. Wolves shake the contents of stomachs and intestines of their prey. They do not need the enzymes, as those enzymes are specific to herbivore diets.
No. They do not "need" vegetables.

However there have been plenty of studies on dogs showing they benefit from the compounds found in veggies.

Wolves have significantly shorter lifespans then dogs. They don't face age related diseases like cancer, macular degeneration, etc. Besides many studies of scat from wild caninids, including wolves, show they consume grasses and berries.

So I'll give my guys some kale for the lutein, some papaya for the lycopene, etc.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Cam has a mild case of HOD. So far I had him on raw. He was put, and I agreed, on a low calciumhosphorus kibble from Wellness Core puppy by the Osteo vet. Also limited calories so he is skinny. After a month now, he seems to be doing better and his gaits are improving and he hasn't limped for quite some time. If I will ever raise another pup, I am not starting with raw until the skeleton is fully grown. With HOD the cause has not been conclusive but I just don't want to take another chance. I am getting paranoid about this actually.
I think I feel the same way. I waited to start mine on raw until Apollo was almost a year old. I'm sure I will have another pup or two in the future and I would have to really think long and hard on diet for the first year.

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