Sedation - Page 7

bobmcaulay@live.com · 02-17-2010, 09:04 AM

hi i have 10 year old male.I,ve tried to make his life good.in return he,s made my life great.he,s had two hip replacements he,s somewhat sore all the time but he still plays.and is still sound of mind.
I have been thinking of the day when he will have to be put down.I wonder if i,m being selfish

shilohsmom · 02-17-2010, 04:40 PM

First, welcome to the boards. I'm so sorry to hear about your boy. I think you may have posted onto the thread about Sedation and you might want to make this a 'New Thread'..that way people will see it and we might be able to offer our support. Just go to the New Thread box, type in your info and a new thread will appear for you.

mcgwnlynn · 04-04-2010, 10:22 AM

I'm so sorry for your loss, too. We just lost our first rescue GSD, 13----he slept by my son every night. He was the best friend ever....we also have a wonderful Vet (Lockwood Ridge, Sarasota, FL) who gave us plenty of time to talk to him, then when we were ready (are we ever?) she gave him one medication in his IV, then, let us gather for his big hug s and kisses, he was EXTREMELY calm, eyes closed like he was napping, relaxed, then, came in to give the final medication through the IV. It was so peaceful, I was prepared for something entirely different. She let us stay as long as we wanted. She gave us a beautiful box, so we could bury him at home. With the pain of losing motion in his back legs , and the pain meds he was on, and hearing him whine briefly the night before, we all felt a heavenly peace on the final ride home, to his final resting place. No more pain, and he is still with us-----we will meet again.

Cyrak6 · 07-11-2010, 05:47 AM

I was a vet tech for eight years, and assisted with countless euthanasias (as well as anesthetic procedures). I worked for several different vets, who each had different ways of doing them. I always carefully watched the reactions of the animals, curious what they were thinking and feeling. I also observed the owner's reaction, and what seemed to be important to them. My conclusion was this:

The most important thing to owners seems to be that their friend should spend the very last moments of their life calm, comfortable, and knowing that their owner is right there beside them. They want to be sure that the procedure is quick and painless. And most of them want to be able to say goodbye right before the end.

It seemed to me that the very best way to ensure this was a catheter. The animal goes in back for a few minutes, and the vet inserts a catheter into a vein, and makes sure that it is clear and flowing well. This removes the possibility of issues at the crucial moment - that is not the time to find out that the veins are collapsed, or to have to search for a vein. All that (including the fear or pain of the stick) is taken care of and forgotten long before the important "last moments". Then the animal is brought back into the room with the owner, and they get to spend as long as they need/want saying goodbye.

When the time comes, the flow of the catheter is checked again with saline, and if all is well, then a sedative may be given through the catheter, if desired. This will be the same sedative that might be given to any animal having a surgical procedure, and therefore has been tested to be as safe as possible. Most veterinary drugs were previously used in human medicine, until the next new thing came along. Ideally, rather than just making the animal drowsy, enough is given to put the animal completely out, as if for anesthetic. This way there is no time for the animal to become upset or afraid because they feel "strange". If you have ever had an IV anesthetic for a surgical procedure, you know what this is like. You barely have time to wonder when it's going to start working, and then you're out. It's really not unpleasant (barring unforeseen exceptions). This is the time to say goodbye, as the sedative is being injected, as this is the last point the animal will be conscious of your presence. Unless the animal is particularly anxious or aggressive at the vet's, some people may want to avoid pre-sedation (such as Acepromazine), because this does tend to make the animal feel disoriented and vulnerable. It also tends to muddy up the last few hours and/or moments you get to spend with them, as they will not be as aware of your presence.

Once the animal is unconscious (if sedation was given), the euthanasia drug is administered. The primary ingredient in the most common euthanasia drugs (like Beuthanasia) is Pentobarbitol, which is a Barbiturate. As I'm sure most of you know, Barbiturates are very commonly abused drugs, and this is certainly not because they make you feel pain. A quote from a Wiki article on Barbiturates: "Recreational users report that a barbiturate high gives them feelings of relaxed contentment and euphoria." Pentobarbitol is an anesthetic, and its original use was simply to induce an anesthetic state for surgery. It stands to reason that if given to overdose (as in a euthanasia) it would first induce the effects of a lower dose - euphoria, then unconsciousness (assuming they are not already unconscious from the sedative) - before causing death. There is nothing in its history or mode of action to suggest that it causes pain or heart attack before unconsciousness - this would make it useless as an anesthetic. The other main ingredient of Beuthanasia is Phenytoin, which is an anti-epyleptic. Also no reason to suggest pain here. Both suppress the central nervous system, which starts with the brain (and consciousness), then at higher doses, moves to the involuntary functions, such as heart and lungs.

Be prepared for some movement, even after the heart has stopped. This is a very legitimate occurrance - the vet is not just making this up to make you feel better. It does not always happen, but it can. Unpleasant or unexpected things do happen, but they are a small percentage. If a catheter is used, they are far less likely.

In situations like this, I have always been comforted by science and knowledge. These drugs are not just the first thing the vets grabbed off the shelf. They have been carefully studied and tested, first on animals they intended to keep alive and well, and then as euthanasia drugs. All the vets and staff I have ever worked with took this very seriously, and tried to make it as easy as possible on the animals and owners.

Don't ever feel bad for trying to plan ahead - you never know when something unexpected will happen. Talk to your vet well in advance. Be prepared, and ask as many questions as you can think of. If you don't like the answers, ask if they will be willing to do things the way you ask. If you are not averse to paying a little extra (which I'm sure is the last thing you're worried about), most of them will be happy to grant your wishes. If they are not, talk to other vets until you find one who will. Knowledge and preparation are priceless in something as important as this.

mazza · 07-14-2010, 03:40 PM

Over here in England vets do sedate the dogs first before euthanasia automatically, they make sure that they have time to fall asleep with owners there before anything else is done

mazza · 07-14-2010, 03:45 PM

When I have to face these terrible times I have friends who take the other dogs so I can spend the whole day with the one I will be saying good-bye to and give them their favourite treat even if its (bad) for them, my last one loved cream cakes covered in pea's ( I know right) what a combination but that's what he liked and that's what he had and I always stay until the very end when they have passed away, because I know if the roles were reversed they would do the same for me

rockytopbob · 07-26-2010, 07:00 PM

Hi. We recently had our vet put down our beloved GS of 10 years. I talked with Roka about taking a walk and going for a stick as the vet gave her the one shot while she lay on the back seat of our car. We think she went on with positive thoughts rather than fear. Her panting just became quieter and quieter and then stopped. She just faded quietly away. Definitely no pain on her part.
We foster GS and have had 13 WONDERFUL guests go to inspected, qualified homes in a year and a half. Do contact a GS rescue near you and as soon as possible partly fill the void such a friend leaves. There are perfect dogs waiting behind the steel wires for a new life. bob

Anja1Blue · 07-30-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmcaulay@live.com

hi i have 10 year old male.I,ve tried to make his life good.in return he,s made my life great.he,s had two hip replacements he,s somewhat sore all the time but he still plays.and is still sound of mind.
I have been thinking of the day when he will have to be put down.I wonder if i,m being selfish

I don't think you are being selfish - there's a big difference between thinking/planning ahead and wishing an individual gone! You may also be one of the "lucky" ones whose dog passes on his own - in which case you won't have to make that decision for him. It doesn't happen that way very often, but it does happen. I hope he has many years left with you.....
______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 - waiting at the Bridge

TED MEYER · 01-30-2011, 02:37 PM

In the mornings near the end of my Aceup's life, 14 GS, I was hoping he had left me through the night. But no. He wasn't suffering but he could not get up or stay up with help either. I had to call the vet for "the stuff" and came to my house, put cathiter in him,with my help, and put the drug in him. I never thought of asking if this stuff puts him to sleep first or just ends him or nothing. He did growl when the cathiter was put in but, otherwise it was very quick. I still am upset I never asked anything and will do so when this situation comes again. Thanks for this forum

CMVance · 02-06-2011, 10:23 PM

When we had to make the decision to have our beloved German Shepherd Tascha euthanized last year from cancer, the vet placed a catheter in her back leg and sedated her. They walked her into the little room with us and she was obviously not feeling any pain. We spent the last minutes with her holding her and talking to her and when we were ready (if it is possible to be ready) the vet came in and put 3 injections into the catheter and she sighed and passed peacefully away. I told my wife and daughter not to cry in front of her so she wouldn't be scared. Although I am still mourning her passing, I would never consider having it done without sedation.

02-17-2010, 04:40 PM	#62 (permalink)
shilohsmom Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 6,636	First, welcome to the boards. I'm so sorry to hear about your boy. I think you may have posted onto the thread about Sedation and you might want to make this a 'New Thread'..that way people will see it and we might be able to offer our support. Just go to the New Thread box, type in your info and a new thread will appear for you. __________________ Rosa Mom to; Shiloh, 8.5 year old LCGSD Shoshona, 7.5 year old LCGSD Eli, 5 year old LCGSD Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks they are the greatest dog that ever lived!

04-04-2010, 10:22 AM	#63 (permalink)
mcgwnlynn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sarasota, FLORIDA Posts: 245	I'm so sorry for your loss, too. We just lost our first rescue GSD, 13----he slept by my son every night. He was the best friend ever....we also have a wonderful Vet (Lockwood Ridge, Sarasota, FL) who gave us plenty of time to talk to him, then when we were ready (are we ever?) she gave him one medication in his IV, then, let us gather for his big hug s and kisses, he was EXTREMELY calm, eyes closed like he was napping, relaxed, then, came in to give the final medication through the IV. It was so peaceful, I was prepared for something entirely different. She let us stay as long as we wanted. She gave us a beautiful box, so we could bury him at home. With the pain of losing motion in his back legs , and the pain meds he was on, and hearing him whine briefly the night before, we all felt a heavenly peace on the final ride home, to his final resting place. No more pain, and he is still with us-----we will meet again. __________________ SHPRDRSQ

07-11-2010, 05:47 AM	#64 (permalink)
Cyrak6 New Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Afghanistan (for now) Posts: 19	I was a vet tech for eight years, and assisted with countless euthanasias (as well as anesthetic procedures). I worked for several different vets, who each had different ways of doing them. I always carefully watched the reactions of the animals, curious what they were thinking and feeling. I also observed the owner's reaction, and what seemed to be important to them. My conclusion was this: The most important thing to owners seems to be that their friend should spend the very last moments of their life calm, comfortable, and knowing that their owner is right there beside them. They want to be sure that the procedure is quick and painless. And most of them want to be able to say goodbye right before the end. It seemed to me that the very best way to ensure this was a catheter. The animal goes in back for a few minutes, and the vet inserts a catheter into a vein, and makes sure that it is clear and flowing well. This removes the possibility of issues at the crucial moment - that is not the time to find out that the veins are collapsed, or to have to search for a vein. All that (including the fear or pain of the stick) is taken care of and forgotten long before the important "last moments". Then the animal is brought back into the room with the owner, and they get to spend as long as they need/want saying goodbye. When the time comes, the flow of the catheter is checked again with saline, and if all is well, then a sedative may be given through the catheter, if desired. This will be the same sedative that might be given to any animal having a surgical procedure, and therefore has been tested to be as safe as possible. Most veterinary drugs were previously used in human medicine, until the next new thing came along. Ideally, rather than just making the animal drowsy, enough is given to put the animal completely out, as if for anesthetic. This way there is no time for the animal to become upset or afraid because they feel "strange". If you have ever had an IV anesthetic for a surgical procedure, you know what this is like. You barely have time to wonder when it's going to start working, and then you're out. It's really not unpleasant (barring unforeseen exceptions). This is the time to say goodbye, as the sedative is being injected, as this is the last point the animal will be conscious of your presence. Unless the animal is particularly anxious or aggressive at the vet's, some people may want to avoid pre-sedation (such as Acepromazine), because this does tend to make the animal feel disoriented and vulnerable. It also tends to muddy up the last few hours and/or moments you get to spend with them, as they will not be as aware of your presence. Once the animal is unconscious (if sedation was given), the euthanasia drug is administered. The primary ingredient in the most common euthanasia drugs (like Beuthanasia) is Pentobarbitol, which is a Barbiturate. As I'm sure most of you know, Barbiturates are very commonly abused drugs, and this is certainly not because they make you feel pain. A quote from a Wiki article on Barbiturates: "Recreational users report that a barbiturate high gives them feelings of relaxed contentment and euphoria." Pentobarbitol is an anesthetic, and its original use was simply to induce an anesthetic state for surgery. It stands to reason that if given to overdose (as in a euthanasia) it would first induce the effects of a lower dose - euphoria, then unconsciousness (assuming they are not already unconscious from the sedative) - before causing death. There is nothing in its history or mode of action to suggest that it causes pain or heart attack before unconsciousness - this would make it useless as an anesthetic. The other main ingredient of Beuthanasia is Phenytoin, which is an anti-epyleptic. Also no reason to suggest pain here. Both suppress the central nervous system, which starts with the brain (and consciousness), then at higher doses, moves to the involuntary functions, such as heart and lungs. Be prepared for some movement, even after the heart has stopped. This is a very legitimate occurrance - the vet is not just making this up to make you feel better. It does not always happen, but it can. Unpleasant or unexpected things do happen, but they are a small percentage. If a catheter is used, they are far less likely. In situations like this, I have always been comforted by science and knowledge. These drugs are not just the first thing the vets grabbed off the shelf. They have been carefully studied and tested, first on animals they intended to keep alive and well, and then as euthanasia drugs. All the vets and staff I have ever worked with took this very seriously, and tried to make it as easy as possible on the animals and owners. Don't ever feel bad for trying to plan ahead - you never know when something unexpected will happen. Talk to your vet well in advance. Be prepared, and ask as many questions as you can think of. If you don't like the answers, ask if they will be willing to do things the way you ask. If you are not averse to paying a little extra (which I'm sure is the last thing you're worried about), most of them will be happy to grant your wishes. If they are not, talk to other vets until you find one who will. Knowledge and preparation are priceless in something as important as this. Last edited by Cyrak6; 07-11-2010 at 05:50 AM.

07-14-2010, 03:40 PM	#65 (permalink)
mazza Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Liverpool England Posts: 149	Over here in England vets do sedate the dogs first before euthanasia automatically, they make sure that they have time to fall asleep with owners there before anything else is done __________________ *My dogs are not spoiled.......!!!!* *Im Just well trained!!!!!!!!!!*

07-14-2010, 03:45 PM	#66 (permalink)
mazza Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Liverpool England Posts: 149	When I have to face these terrible times I have friends who take the other dogs so I can spend the whole day with the one I will be saying good-bye to and give them their favourite treat even if its (bad) for them, my last one loved cream cakes covered in pea's ( I know right) what a combination but that's what he liked and that's what he had and I always stay until the very end when they have passed away, because I know if the roles were reversed they would do the same for me __________________ *My dogs are not spoiled.......!!!!* *Im Just well trained!!!!!!!!!!*

02-17-2010, 09:04 AM	#61 (permalink)
bobmcaulay@live.com New Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1	hi i have 10 year old male.I,ve tried to make his life good.in return he,s made my life great.he,s had two hip replacements he,s somewhat sore all the time but he still plays.and is still sound of mind. I have been thinking of the day when he will have to be put down.I wonder if i,m being selfish

07-26-2010, 07:00 PM	#67 (permalink)
rockytopbob New Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: mid Sierra at 3000' Posts: 8	Hi. We recently had our vet put down our beloved GS of 10 years. I talked with Roka about taking a walk and going for a stick as the vet gave her the one shot while she lay on the back seat of our car. We think she went on with positive thoughts rather than fear. Her panting just became quieter and quieter and then stopped. She just faded quietly away. Definitely no pain on her part. We foster GS and have had 13 WONDERFUL guests go to inspected, qualified homes in a year and a half. Do contact a GS rescue near you and as soon as possible partly fill the void such a friend leaves. There are perfect dogs waiting behind the steel wires for a new life. bob

01-30-2011, 02:37 PM	#69 (permalink)
TED MEYER Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 28	In the mornings near the end of my Aceup's life, 14 GS, I was hoping he had left me through the night. But no. He wasn't suffering but he could not get up or stay up with help either. I had to call the vet for "the stuff" and came to my house, put cathiter in him,with my help, and put the drug in him. I never thought of asking if this stuff puts him to sleep first or just ends him or nothing. He did growl when the cathiter was put in but, otherwise it was very quick. I still am upset I never asked anything and will do so when this situation comes again. Thanks for this forum

02-06-2011, 10:23 PM	#70 (permalink)
CMVance New Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2	When we had to make the decision to have our beloved German Shepherd Tascha euthanized last year from cancer, the vet placed a catheter in her back leg and sedated her. They walked her into the little room with us and she was obviously not feeling any pain. We spent the last minutes with her holding her and talking to her and when we were ready (if it is possible to be ready) the vet came in and put 3 injections into the catheter and she sighed and passed peacefully away. I told my wife and daughter not to cry in front of her so she wouldn't be scared. Although I am still mourning her passing, I would never consider having it done without sedation.

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