When is it time to say Good Bye??

[WiscTiger]

I have been reading in the senior section and the In Loving Memory section. I didn't want to Hijack anyone's thread, but what and when do you feel it is time?

I have my own idea's when it is time to say good bye to one of my pals, but it they aren't hard and fast rules, it would depend on the dog.

But just for open discussion sake I though maybe we could discuss what are our feelings.

First, I will say that I am pretty close minded with cancer and chemo treatments. I am pretty sure I would go with low dose steroids and possible some herbal if they would work together.

I don't know if I would do the cart or wheel chair for an older dog. If it is a mid age I would have to consider it. But a senior who is losing all mobility, then I feel it is my job as their care taker and provider to see that they don't suffer, have some quality and dignity to life.

When people say that their dog told them, if it has happened to you can you share what you saw. My first GSD, first dog I every had to make the decision told me. His back end totally collapsed the day after I brought Cheyenne home. He was a proud old guy and he didn't want me to help him on stairs, getting up from laying down. The only help he would take was a little boost to get up on the couch in my office where he would spend his day. After the hips totally collapsed, I saw the sparkle and determination wasn't there any more and he looked very very tired. So I made the call, it would be the next day. So we had a great day, had all of his favorite foods, but I couldn't get him to go outside to go potty. So I knew I was making the right choice.

Val

[allieg]

I haven't really thought about it till this week with our cat so my ideas may change as life goes on.I personally would have to say if they loose mobility or bowel,urine control due to age or disease I would have to make that gut wrenching call.I would try to do what I could till I no longer where able to or it just wasn't working.If they were in pain and no medication would make the pain go away without compromising there quality of life.I would have to go on an animal by animal basis too.If Athena or Lexi were to get sick or hurt I would do all I could but if certain cats were to get sick or hurt I unfortunately wouldn't be able to do the same.I hope people understand my reasoning.They would get medical care but I would have to draw a line at some point.I just pray I won't have to make that call anytime soon.I can't handle loosing anything or one else in my life.....Death suck no matter what living being your talking about...

[Zisso]

My Lizzy could only take trhee steps before she would fall(severe HD) and could not get back up again. She struggled to go poop. She was bright mentally, but I could tell by the look in her eyes the pain was beginning to get to her; she had already been on Rimadyl for over 6 months. I chose to let go at that pint rather than to continue her suffering.

[Woodreb]

With Rica, it was several small things that finally told me it was time. Her coat had lost its shine and looked dull. In the last week, she would often have a withdrawn and kind of distressed look on her face that (to me anyway) looked as if she was in pain. That look was the most distressing to me because it seemed that this was pain inspite of the medications and supplements we had her on.

I also had to do a lot of soul searching during the last month or so while watching her go down hill. I know there could have been different medications we could have tried and we probably could have found other ways to manage her incontinence problems. But I had to ask myself as I looked at her, if I was doing these things for her or for me. More and more, it seemed that the answer was that I was doing it more for myself and not for her - because I couldn't let go. And when I acknowledged that it was mostly for me, I knew that it was not fair to keep putting her through more. She had been a very active dog and she had become so crippled that she needed us to move her around the house or outside to go potty. And it seemed that we were robbing her of her dignity. My DH felt the same way and that was when we knew that the fairest thing for us to do was to let her go.

[Kayos and Havoc]

Ah good post Val! I never went into the senior section til Max started his roller coaster ride about a year ago.

If he were in mid life or even early senior I would consider doing the cart, wheel chair, buggy whatever - as long as his attitude was good and his eyes were bright and his mind was clear.


But a dog over 11 or 12 - I would have to do some soul searching on. Max is losing control of his faculties slowly and when he can not get up and walk, or cannot control his bladder or bowels - it is his time. He would want that I think.

We did the very expensive hip replacement surgery on Kayos. She was 5 1/2. We were at the point where we put her down or did the surgery. We did the surgery. If she were 10 or 11 we would have put her down.

Same thing with cancer. If the dog is under 8 or 9 and there is a pretty good shot that we can insure a good few years we would do the chemo. But an older guy like Max? NO!

I don't want to say there is not enough return on our investment because you cannot really gage that. But in all honesty you do surgery, chemo and all you buy is a few more months? A few more months of what? As a rationalizing human I would not put myself through that - why put a dog through it?

I know these are very personal decisions and as I said in another post, I have the utmost respect for those that pull out all the stops and wheel their guys around in wagons or wheeled carts, but I do not think I can do that unless it was clear to me the dog really wanted it.

I did not mean any insensitivity in that as I knew there are several that have just lost dogs that they have done these things for and a few that are getting ready to say goodbye.

Tough choices but I guess the bottom line is this -- am I doing it for me or the dog?

[BowWowMeow]

With Massie, the dog who started it all, I had the most terrible time. We were like one. She was so devoted to me that she would have bounced down the street on her nose if she needed to in order to follow me. In the last year of her life she was 95% blind and deaf and her hip replacement had worn out. The other hip was severely dysplastic. She had had one knee surgery but the other side had gone. But she was still happy. Then one day she stopped eating and in very short order could not breathe well or move around. I knew when I got up to leave the room for a second and she could no longer follow that her time had come. The vet came to my house and she died in my arms, at home.

I feel the same way as others about chemo, surgery and carts for a very old dog with serious health problems. I always use quality of life as my gauge. The problem is that when it's your dog and you love your dog and everyone else loves your dog it becomes difficult to judge what that really means. You keep lowering the bar. And when you have dogs who are as devoted to you as you to them, it also is hard to know when it's time because I've seen dogs hold on b/c their people weren't ready to let them go.

And there along comes a dog like Chama whose body is wearing out but her mind is that of a much younger dog.

[Woodreb]

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow. And when you have dogs who are as devoted to you as you to them, it also is hard to know when it's time because I've seen dogs hold on b/c their people weren't ready to let them go.

I saw this happen with a friend of mine when I lived in Texas. My housemate and I were watching her dog for her while she was on vacation visiting some friends. She had told me that she thought they would have to make a decision about the dog (elderly and in poor health) when they came home. And she really didn't want to make that decision.
The dog died at our house in her sleep two days before my friend came home. I always thought that the dog did that so my friend wouldn't have to make that decision.

[SuzyE]

I went thru a very harrowing experience with jazmin and cancer including a nightmarish amputation which i still feel bad about. however, she died of an infection, not cancer or amputation. she refused to eat anymore-anything-chicken, steak, ham i tried everything. I could have had her put on IVs but she was done fighting. I held her in my arms and told her she could die and she did. her death wasn't nearly as bad as her suffering. I still cry daily about the last 6 months of her life. when they refuse to eat or they can't walk anymore they are done. it's a nightmare, it wasn't as bad as cesar dying of a heart attack though.
I can't imagine not having paige, of course i will do anything for her as long as she is happy and can get around. jazmin was NOT happy once she could no longer walk with her boyfriend, Riley.
it's very hard but you just can't let them suffer.

[Ilovealldogs]

It's definitely going to be different for everyone and every dog is different. My dog never "told" me in her eyes (or at least not that I wanted to see), but her physical health did. She had episodes that were like seizures, which she had never done before. She could only walk a few steps before she'd collapse and then urinate/defecate during the seizure. There was no medication that could help her at this point. On the last day she wouldn't eat anything. It was hard for me to let go because her heart was still strong and she could still see me and she was still cognitively with it. When I told my vet this, he said, "Yes, if only we could give her a new set of lungs" because they were filled with cancer. I still cry everyday (since March) for the loss of her and still question whether it really was her time but I knew that I had to be strong and do what was best for her and not what was best for me. I would have let her go on her own but my vet said that she would eventually be gasping for air and it would be a painful death as she would be suffocating. I just could not put her through that. It was time, even though I wanted to remain in denial and still do at times. The only thing that keeps me going is faith in knowing I will see her again one day when it is time for me to go home.

[JazzNScout]

I kept hearing that the dog would let me know. I've heard, "When the dog stops eating." I always said once Morgan stopped eating and stopped chasing the poodle behind us, that would be the time.

Morgan had CES and was slowly deteriorating. She lost all feeling when it came to going to the bathroom, so it got to the point that it was all just coming out of her. I ignored it until I got her outside so as not to embarrass her (like your first one and so many others, she was so proud), and one morning my heart broke as I was crying and cleaning up the mess, only to find her watching me with sorrowful eyes through the glass. I will never forget that look. I finally began asking God to take her because she was just not in good shape, but her spirit seemed fine, and I didn't know what to do.
I came home from work one evening and she was just waiting there at the door for me with this desperate look on her face, as if she had been waiting and waiting. As soon as she saw me, she collapsed. I tried to lure her up with chicken, and that didn't work. Then the poodle behind us began barking, and Morgan lifted her head in interest, then lied it back down. I later thought: Well, that was letting me know. I never got any other "sign."

With Jasmine, I chose not to let her suffer like that. I know Morgan had put on a proud face for me. I know it's a personal and individual choice. It broke my heart to pieces to take Jasmine in on July 3 and put her down when her eyes were still sparkling and inquisitive, when her spirit was still alive, and when she was still enjoying food, toys, and walks. But it was the heavy pain medication that was allowing the quality of life she was having, and I knew her life had changed when she began lying on the tile floor in front of the fan for 22 hours out of 24. She didn't feel good, but she wasn't in severe pain. I just didn't want her to get there, and the vet assured me that it would get to that point, it was just a matter of hours or perhaps a couple of weeks.

With Jasmine, too, I prayed for guidance and prayed for help in doing the right thing. Once I gathered the information I felt I needed, I made the decision.

So, it is an individual decision depending on the dog, educating ourselves about what is going on with them, and talking it all over with your vet.