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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Ask if her bitch is spayed. With a 9 year age difference, it is very unlikely that there will be SSA going on, especially if the rotty raises the pup. It is not ALL females that have SSA. It is usually females who are relatively close in age and power within a pack structure, and can have a hormonal component, at least in the beginning. If the older bitch is spayed, and the intro goes ok, then I think it there is a good chance there won't be an issue.

I am not sure how old your other dog is. The puppy that was pregnant was totally a special case, as pregnancy hormones can cause aggression to dogs or cats or other critters. Once females fight though the chances are almost nil that they will live happily ever after.

I would not discount the Rotty owner if everything else lines up.

As for introducing your other bitch to the puppy, wait for the dam to go to the rescue, and just do it. You do not need neutral ground. This is a baby-puppy-- still has its puppy license. It should be fine.
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Last edited by selzer; 01-28-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:41 PM   #252 (permalink)
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What an amazing story!! Kudos to you Pink and your family for caring for a dog and her pups in a rough situation. You can't help but wonder 'what if', if she ended up with someone else and it happened.
Again, amazing job! I hope the last little one finds her home I also wouldn't just say no to the Rotti lady, you never know. Go with your gut and remember that you really can't be too picky. I think finding homes yourself is better than a shelter doing it. Especially if its with people you know, I just feel like when you're finding the home, that you feel more motherly and want the best. And I'm sure rescues and shelters do too, but these little buggers you were there for from the very start! Congratulations on this experience!
I wish Heidi the best, if we had the room for another GSD, I'd love to have her. But I don't know how Sarge would feel! he can barely handle the cat snuggling with us haha
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:44 PM   #253 (permalink)
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She wasn't worried the rott would attack, she just wanted to introduce them. I also had someone contact me and they also have a female mix who is about 4. Both sound like possibilities so will keep an open mind. The girl left is one of my favorites so I'm probably extra protective as a result.

If I thought Heidi (1-2 years) could get along with Sasha (she will be 4 in a couple months) we would give it a shot, but with the kids and their previously fighting history, just can't risk it. Sucks cuz they're both good dogs. Man, I've learned so much the past couple months. Once in a lifetime experience. Maybe one day I will be able to laugh about it... And my son has a cool and rather unusual story to tell, his teachers are even asking for pictures. Lol
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #254 (permalink)
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Would it be completely nuts to keep two puppies? We love the brindle girl, she's so sweet and laid back and not dominant at all.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:25 PM   #255 (permalink)
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Yeah. It is completely nuts.

It does not mean twice the training, twice the socialization, it's more like three times. Because you need to train them separately. And you have to train them together. And training them together will take way longer than training a single dog. For example, house training: you jump out of bed at the crack of dawn throw on your muckalucks and pull the puppy out of the crate, and stand outside for half an hour in your PJs pleading with your puppy to potty while you are becoming increasingly frustrated and cold, knowing all the time that the other little monster is probably baptizing her crate right now.

If you have one puppy, then when you call the puppy out of the yard, you're pretty darn exciting and the puppy will want to come to you for whatever you want to do next. If you have two puppies, and they are horsing around in the yard, they may not think you are quite as exciting as they are while they are engaged in some nuisance behavior or another.

All the socialization done with a doggy-buddy needs to be repeated while the pup is on its own with you. Pups get their confidence from the litter. So a trip to the vet's waiting room with their litter-sister is a whole different ball game than being there all by her doggy self. Dog classes need to be separate.

But that is not all. After spending 10-24 months training and socializing and bonding with your two puppies, they might decide one day that they no longer are willing to tolerate the other. And you are in the same boat you are right now. Remember that bitches will start fighting for a number of reasons: they are close in power; one or both have resource guarding problem or the green gene; they are reaching sexual maturity; one rubs the other the wrong way; a great play session goes overboard.

Lastly, two puppies are cute. Two young dogs are a lot of work. You've doubled the food and vet bills and tripled the training, and time and working and grooming and everything, and now your dogs are 7 or 8 or 9 and pretty darn close to perfect. And suddenly you are dealing with two geriatric dogs. Or, one of your dogs get's something awful and dies. And the other dog follows soon after. That is double the grief.

I have littermates. I have raised litter mates 4 times, besides the pups I have right now. I am set up so that I can keep them separated when I am not there or always if necessary. It can be done. But you really have to go into it with your eyes open.

These puppies are too young for you to know if you will or will not have a problem with SSA.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:36 PM   #256 (permalink)
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What Selzer said x infinity.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:21 PM   #257 (permalink)
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I guess you could call that idea moment of temporary insanity. We were always going to keep a boy from the litter, but the brindle girl is just so sweet and laidback (and pretty) that we seriously thought about keeping her. Actually my husband did more so than me, I was always somewhat hesitant, especially when I read online many horror stories about keeping two littermates. Ultimately, I was the one who said no (which is unusual since my husband is typically the voice of reason). If we didn't have a full house already and Sasha, I would have seriously considered it. but I just know that I will be the one who will end up doing mostly everything and I have enough on my plate as it is with the kids and cats and Sasha and the one pup we are already keeping.

Over the weekend, we did introduce each puppy separately to Sasha downstairs out of Heidi's eyesight. They all did very well with her. She did great with them too. She seemed to want to play with the male pup we are keeping. She was afraid of the dominant male pup, and she was gentle with the runt. The female brindle she was a little unsure about. The brindle girl was brave and running around and jumped on Sasha' back at one point and it freaked Sasha out. Poor girl has been through so much, but she was great with all the pups. I think if Heidi hadn't been pg, she and her would have gotten along, she just wants to play with all of them.

Anyway, there is an end in sight, next Wednesday they are 8 weeks and can go to their forever homes. We have found homes for all 6 of the puppies and the best thing is they are all going to friends. I hadn't been thrilled at the prospect of giving them to complete strangers and grateful I don't have to do that. Most families who are taking them had an older dog that died or had been wanting a puppy for a while. I was thinking of having a litter reunion over the summer since we'll see them a couple times a year at least.

Vet said he was impressed with how healthy they all are, which made us feel good. I'm going to miss them. I won't miss the poop everywhere, the biting and nipping and whining and endless playfighting they do constantly, but I will miss going to see them every morning and having them all rush at me in excitement. What a crazy time this has been.

Edited to add that I wanted to thank all of you for your advice, insight, and helping me along the way. You have no idea how grateful I am to all of you!!!!

Last edited by pinklady; 02-04-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:23 PM   #258 (permalink)
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:59 PM   #259 (permalink)
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BTW, once the owners start taking their pups home, will Heidi get weird or upset?? She will still go by them, not to let them feed, but to play or correct their behavior (usually just the 2 pups who sass back at her). I'm just wondering what I should expect once they start leaving and how she will respond or if there is anything I should do.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:01 PM   #260 (permalink)
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Once I have had a bitch react. My first litter. We and the pup's new owner were talking, doing paperwork, for about an hour in the room with the litter and Arwen. And then we decided to do this, and I took Arwen into the bedroom and put her in a crate. Then I helped them carry the puppy and stuff to the car. I came back in and released Arwen and she went right to the box, counted the puppies and started to cry. My sister was there. She started to cry. Uhg! The next day when the second one went home, she did not bat an eye. Nor with any of the others, or her second litter.

I have no idea why the first one caused her to react like that. All my other females were ok when their puppies went home. I left them all with the puppies until they went home, and usually they were ready to see the bulk of them go by eight weeks. And as I usually kept at least one beyond eight weeks, there was no issue.

Hepsi, is 10 months old and I just separated her from Jenna. When she hurt herself at about six months, I put her by herself for about a week. She did awful, and I put her mom in with her and they were great together. Separating them at 10 months was much harder than separating 8 week old babies. On the other hand, separating 12 week old or 16 week old pups from the mother, is like, "Thank God you got rid of that one, I was ready to chew her head off!"

I think that since you don't have her in with them 24/7 she will be fine when they go home. And you are keeping a boy? So until she goes to her new home she will have him? That should work just fine.
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