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Old 01-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #231 (permalink)
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I just wanted to see how it went if I advertised locally. If I get no hits and/or I don't like the person, then I will bring them to the rescue with their mother.

As far as giving to strangers, if it were to come to that, I plan on drawing up some contract of some sort and vet checking for sure. With friends and family that I know I will see on a regular basis, I will not be so stringent because I know they are all good people (which makes me so happy that they are going to good homes).

Still hoping to see if some friends that were on the fence will decide to come see them and take one.

I feel like I'm giving away my kids, this isn't going to be easy!!!
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:34 PM   #232 (permalink)
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If you have a rescue willing to help, it would be better to do that than try to ascertain if someone's going to be a good owner or not.

Just my opinion I know - but it's hard enough as a rescue to find quality adopters, it's even tougher for a regular citizen who may not feel comfortable asking for vet and personal references and such. If it's a good rescue they'll do all that legwork for you.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:04 PM   #233 (permalink)
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I think the rescue said they would be willing to take the last two if she cannot find homes for them. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with her talking to people and getting a small fee for each pup to cover all the costs of raising this litter. This wasn't her fault, it is not like she is going to go out and breed her again. There are costs involved. And people who understand that, are more likely to understand that their dog needs to go to the vet, go to training, etc.

People in my neck of the woods would think I was crazy if I created a contract with requirements on an unregistered or mixed-breed puppy. I think sometimes you have to trust people. If while you are talking to these people, you get a feeling that they would not make a good home, do not give them a puppy. Put together a list of questions to keep next to you on the phone, that will spur them into talking about themselves. People LOVE to talk about their past pets. You just need to nudge them and listen. Give them enough rope and the bad ones will hang themselves. E-mails are fine for things that can be easily described, brindle female, 7 weeks old, first shots. And then to give them your phone number and have them CALL you. Don't give an address until it is a done deal, until you approve them for a puppy. Don't let them know this is an interview. It is. It is a phone interview where you listen and nudge, they talk. There is nothing wrong with letting them know how you have a litter, and that is why you really want to make sure these pups go to good homes who will make sure they won't ever be in that position, but 90% of the conversation should be coming from the buyer.

As for vaccinating, I like puppies to be at home for at least a couple of days after their vaccinations. I wait until seven weeks, give the health certificates to the new owners and tell them when the puppies should have their next set of vaccinations -- between 10 and 11 weeks. I tell them to take the record with them to the vet and explain that the shots were given by a vet, that way the vet cannot discount those vaccinations. The pups should have 1-2 sets of parvo-distemper and then rabies -- the new owners should give these, unless you still have two pups at ten weeks, then give them their second shots.

If it was me, I would tell the vet that I want him to worm them with strongid. The pups need to be weighed and given an amount appropriate to their body weight. Worms can lie dormant, and some worms do not shed eggs constantly. Strongid or strongid-T or nemax are safe wormers for puppies and are often given from 2 weeks and again every two weeks. I think I would get some and worm them now, and then have the vet worm them at 7 weeks, after that they have a good start, and the new owners can take over. The vet shouldn't have a problem with this.

They are a cute bunch.

Some questions you might have ready to ask or nudge people with:

1. Is this going to be your first puppy?
Listen how they talk about them -- "No, I've had plenty of dogs" -- no warm fuzzy feeling there. No, I have raised three puppies before, 2 yorkies and a spitz.

Listen how they talk about their dogs, their names. Ask them if they had any problems, do they talk about health or behavior, etc.

2. What kind of dogs were they/have you ever owned shepherds or working dogs?

3. Do you have any good trainers out where you are?

4. Where do you go to the vet -- make it sound like maybe you are interested in a new vet, are they good? What do you like about them?

If they have never raised a puppy before, ask questions about whether their yard is fenced, what they are planning on in the way of training, if they have chosen a vet and how they chose the vet, ask if they rent their home or if the own. If they rent ask if they can get a copy of their landlord's pet policy, or contact information for you to contact them concerning their pet policy.

If they have never raised a puppy, they may not know that there may be a problem with the size or breed of dog. They may have never considered it. And in the rush of buying a puppy they may tell you what you want to hear on that score. You really ARE looking for reasons to turn people down. That is sad, but it won't do these puppies any good if they go to a home and grow to be 48 pounds, 62 pounds? And the pet policy is 40 pounds. Now you have a 7 month old pup that may or may not have been trained and socialized (because they don't want anyone to see the dog), and the people are too embarrassed to bring it back because they lied about this. So the puppy joins the ranks of puppies that get dumped at the age when puppy cuteness melts into adolescent-dog-insanity.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #234 (permalink)
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You might want to put together a sheet of information for the new puppies. A few quick concise statements about a few topics:
Socialization
Training
Vaccination
Feeding
Spay/Neuter
Grooming

And the like.

Try not to overwhelm. On that page, say they should call you if they have problems or need to rehome the dog.

Oh and the puppies should eat at least 4 x a day at this point -- 5 weeks old.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #235 (permalink)
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Thank you selzer. Have I mentioned how awesome you are?? I mean it!!!!

I think I want to change the puppy food they are eating (Nutro). Can I start to mix in another brand and then slowly phase out the Nutro? Some of the pups seem to have diarrhea and it's really pretty gross. Also we've been letting the food soak in water and then mashing it up....should I start to use let water and not mash up so much??? Getting much trickier now that they are getting older.

Also, as far as the pups in the pen when we're not home - - should Heidi still have access to the pups?? She only goes in there to eat their poops (which? gross). Is that normal? Should we limit her access to them when they're in the pen and let her go by them when we let them out?? Just want to make sure that we do it right. She's actually let them nurse once or twice when they've been out of their 'pen'. Maybe about 5-10 minutes max though. They are eating the puppy food at least 4-5 times a day (I can't believe how fast we go through it). Just didn't know at some point if I should start limiting her exposure to them...?

Last edited by pinklady; 01-22-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:39 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Your doing great If you want to switch foods, do as you said, slowly phase it out ..
I would still do a mash, or atleast soak it good so it swells up.

They are so cute, what chunky monkeys! Even tho it's chaotic I'm sure you will miss them
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:09 PM   #237 (permalink)
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Just read through all this, wow! Got a bit more then you bargained for eh?

I will say even though Heidi isn't a good fit for your home and you are having to place her... I still think its good that you adopted her(minus your hubby and Sasha getting hurt)!

With all the crummy people you can find on CL, she and her puppies could have ended up with a MUCH different life... Euth, research facility, bait dogs, etc.

Even though you can't keep Heidi, you gave her and her pups a chance at a GREAT life! Nothing to feel guilty about and don't let anyone make you feel bad for doing the right thing, they just don't understand.

Mad props to you!!

Oh and my vote would be Boxer as for the mix, either way... Super cute!
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:12 PM   #238 (permalink)
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Any suggestions for a good, affordable brand of dog food? The pups have diarrhea. I'm going to run to the store tonight. Blue Buffalo or Wellness?? I feed my cats Blue Buffalo and always meant to with the dogs but never did.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:29 PM   #239 (permalink)
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Okay, I'm not able to edit my last post. Heidi has been having accidents in the house whereas before she could hold it. Since she's not going near the puppies at all, is it okay if we leave her in her crate while we aren't home? Or is that bad??
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:50 PM   #240 (permalink)
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Hmmm.

A decent affordable dog food is Diamond Naturals, and you can feed their Large Breed Puppy food for the next few weeks.

Diarrhea can be from over-eating, but it also can be from coccidia (which would be treated with Albon) or worms (whether the little buggers are showing up or not). Watch them closely because they can dehydrate quickly at this stage. If they continue to chow down, then they are not as likely to dehydrate. But if they start losing weight then you definitely need to identify if there is a parasite causing the issue. If you are soaking the food with or offering cow's milk that can definitely cause the problem, but soaking it with water is definitely fine. You can try reducing the food by 1/4 and see if that firms things up a bit. It may.

Sometimes you get a larger booger who gets his portion and some of the other pups' portions as well. If this is the case, you might want to separate them into two groups when you feed them so that the smaller or slower ones have a chance to get what they need.

It is perfectly natural for mom to eat their poop. YUCK. But it is essential in the wild to remove the traces of the litter and to keep the puppies clean. She is a good mother. Mind always let their puppies nurse some as well. I let them.

I don't know how she is in the crate, you had her for such a short time before she started having puppies and all of that time she was probably in a bit of an altered state. I think she might be more frantic than usual if she was locked up while her puppies were over there. I would babygate her into a small area where the flooring can have some newspapers put down in part of it. Ideally, she should have access to her puppies but should be able to get away from them too. These little ones will start being able to climb over a 2' x-pen soon, but they may not try it. Hard to say. But if you can baby gate her into the room where the puppies are, and just put down some papers for her, that might do the trick.

A lot of the weaning advise will have you separate the bitch for 12 hours and then for 18 hours and then for 24 hours, and then for 48 hours. And by that point she will be dried up. Then you can let her stay away all day, and put her back in with them at night. I have never done this. So it might be perfectly fine to go ahead and crate her while you aren't there. But what I have encountered with my bitches is that when they hear there puppies crying, they want to put their nose into whatever is happening. If she is stuck in the crate and they are crying, that may cause her to have some crate-related behavioral issues. You can try it and she may have no problem with it. I don't think I would though, as once you have a dog that frantically tries to escape a crate it is hard to go back from there.

Why is she having accidents though? Can she have a bladder infection? Is it possible that she was never house trained? Is it just urine or is she pooping in the house too? In order to support the litter, she has had to eat and drink a lot of food. Nutro is one where she needs to consume a LOT to get the nutrients she needs. This means that all that filler will have to go through the system.
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