Breeding a WL to a SL?

[Andaka]

I have a ASL/EGWL cross and he is a fabulas dog. We are doing obedience and agility and he has some points toward his AKC championship. He is 2 1/2 now, so we will see how far he can go.

[qbchottu]

I wouldn't buy a work/show cross unless it was done by a knowledgeable and experienced breeder. For example kennel von Arlett. Even then, after doing more research, I would probably only buy a 2nd or 3rd generation progeny from a SL/WL cross. I take issue when it is done haphazardly by breeders that don't have the necessary background or knowledge to do these type of pairings, but I suppose that could be said of any dog, breeder, or lines.

[Lakl]

Jinopo is currently doing a working-showline cross. It has received some less than enthusiastic feedback, but is also a repeat breeding. It is said that this breeding produced "balanced, naturally protective dogs with proper balance of drives. Calm, but protective with good prey drive for any work". The sire is also 1/4 showline and seems to be a magnificent dog. I think breeders that truly understand the bloodlines and genetics of these dogs have a better chance of improving the breed.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by Shade

On the other hand, they are both bred for entirely different reasons so would most compliment each other, probably not.
Personally I like keeping the lines separate, but if the right dog came along I would definitely be open to the possibility

I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.
It's one thing to acknowledge the differences on a dog by dog basis, but to ignore the possiblity that a good show line might be the perfect compliment to a good working line because we don't want to see the lines mixed makes no sense on any level. Keeping the lines separate only widens the gap in the breed and diminishes their ability to be total dogs. IMHO

[marbury]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.
It's one thing to acknowledge the differences on a dog by dog basis, but to ignore the possiblity that a good show line might be the perfect compliment to a good working line because we don't want to see the lines mixed makes no sense on any level. Keeping the lines separate only widens the gap in the breed and diminishes their ability to be total dogs. IMHO

^ This

Definitely a more articulate version of what I was getting at, haha!

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.

Yes, it does seem wrong. Unfortunately, it's way things have become with the GSD. In fact most working breeds have established both a working line and a show line. They may look and behave vastly different from one another, but each thinks it's the best, the "truest" representation of the breed. Working lines won't breed to show lines because it might reduce working ability. Show lines won't breed to working lines because it might reduce their chances of winning in the conformation ring.

I don't like it any more than you do, but it's the reality of the situation.

Personally, I think both camps need to focus on a common goal and become more proactive in breeding for the best of both worlds--the "Golden Middle". Unfortunately, for the reasons given above, it is complicated. When crossing lines, it seems like the first generation often gets the worst of both instead of the best of both--especially if the breeder doesn't know what they're doing. Say you have a gorgeous, beautifully moving show dog with weak nerves and low drives. You breed him to a rather plain-looking working line female who has intense prey and defense drive. What you hope for are beautiful puppies with strong drives. What you will likely end up with are plain-looking pups with good drives but weak nerves. They aren't pretty enough to win in the conformation ring. They have enough energy and drive to require an outlet for it, but are too weak-nerved to do well in SchH work. Some of these kind of dogs don't even make good pets, because weak nerves + high drives + inexperienced GSD owner = trouble.

This is what most breeders are afraid of, and why they don't often mix the lines together.

But I still think breeders should be actively looking for a solution to the working/show split. However, many will argue that there isn't a problem.

I hope I live to see a day where ALL GSD's are sound in mind and body and capable of excelling in the work, regardless of bloodline. Of course I already think all of them are beautiful... except, ironically, for some of the VA dogs.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Vom Silbersee has done some show/working crosses: Vom Silbersee German Shepherd Dogs

[bocron]

For me personally, I like the WL dogs the way they are,(especially the lines we tend to go with) so why add SL to it? I could see if I wanted a larger WL dog, or the color was something I wanted to change. We have 6 WL dogs in our house (yes, in the house and yes, together ) and they are all good house dogs. I'm not sure what the addition of SL to these lines would accomplish.
My experience with SL is less, we have 2 in the house (yes, with the 6 WL dogs) and they make great house dogs as well. The drive on the field is good in one, and so-so in the other.
I think it was Lee (Wolfstraum) who said in another thread that in the horse world, the breeds also have definite splits between the performance and show horses and they are fine with it. Working Quarter Horses (that may compete in barrel racing or the like) are pretty different than the QH you see in the Halter classes. The horse people seem to have no big issue with it.
I don't know that you will ever get a Golden Middle within the breed at this point, I think most breeders would be aiming for the Golden Middle within their type.

[Beau]

Interesting that this thread came up....

I have been trying to find a new puppy and was/am really undecided whether I want to try a SL or go back to another WL dog.

Just yesterday, I noticed that one of the local breeders, who is well known for their WL dogs, has a litter on the ground with a father who is also the father of a litter on the ground from a well known local SL breeder.

I've emailed both, asking which one is the cross and why, but so far neither has responded.

[Lakl]

Originally Posted by Beau

Interesting that this thread came up....

I have been trying to find a new puppy and was/am really undecided whether I want to try a SL or go back to another WL dog.

Just yesterday, I noticed that one of the local breeders, who is well known for their WL dogs, has a litter on the ground with a father who is also the father of a litter on the ground from a well known local SL breeder.

I've emailed both, asking which one is the cross and why, but so far neither has responded.

I don't understand the question of "which one is the cross" ?